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+--- Thread: Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response (/showthread.php?tid=10850)
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - YoungTB - 10-21-2018
The Problem
On September 29, I received both a PM on Discord and a note on my update page regarding me accidentally double-claiming Weeks 5 and 6 predictions and double claiming a PT. To add on to this (news to me at the time), I apparently double-claimed a few things in the past, a mock draft and a prediction PT… both over two months ago. I recognized my mistakes, though a bit confused as to why this wasn’t picked up earlier, especially the double-claims from August. I PMed both Bovo and BWIII regarding this matter and explained that I was sorry and I need to pay more attention to my claims, which is 100% true. So, I shottily fixed the claim, not noticing that I claimed Trivia 4 twice, receiving another warning for it. So 15 TPE later, I set out to fix the problem and pay extra attention to my claims this week (or claims from the past two weeks, as I haven’t been updated until yesterday. I checked the codes on each of my claims and confirmed that each code was unique, or in the case of equipment, applied correctly. Until around this past Friday. For some reason, looking over my build, I thought that I hadn’t gotten Extra Time After Practice. So, (on mobile), I added Pro ETAP to my bank claim (which even had extra time on it which I didn’t even see), and added it to my claims, adding an extra 8 TPE to my claim. This was sniffed out by the updater and I am now being punished for it.
The Punishment
I can assume that HO was notified about this incident after the second warning, and were then put in a position of determining whether this is just laziness or something that I've been doing deliberately. Note that, number one, I was notified of this and double-claimed a second time (by the way, this double-claim didn't affect anything because it was sniffed out before I was updated). If I was doing this deliberately, I probably would have stopped after the updating team realized I double-claimed for a whopping two times before then. Secondly, I'm lazy. I'll 100% admit that I'm lazy and I guess I do need to double check these things. I was told by the HO that I wouldn't be able to use a word-inflator for my PTs a week later (NOTE: something that I've been doing for a whole month before hand and didn't get a word for it. HO members even knew I was doing it, but why did they wait a month until they decide to warn me about it and nearly give me a punishment for it? However, that's not the issue here.). But I can just say that they made the wrong call in determining this as cheating. In theory, I should be getting punished for messing up something and getting warned twice over for it. When I originally saw that I messed up a claim again, I thought that I maybe would be getting a small fine for causing an inconvenience to the updaters. But no… I’m getting fined 16 TPE (double what I claimed) and 6 million dollars. To put this into perspective, this is a week’s worth of TPE for me and more than an entire season’s worth of money, twice that of what I paid for the extra time after practice. This isn’t much compared to what has been handed down by the HO in the past. Apparently, the last person to do this was suspended an entire season. But you see, he was doing this deliberately. I am in no way double-claiming on purpose. If I was, I would have stopped after Bovo’s original warning.
My Response
So, in review, I am being penalized an entire week’s worth of TPE, an entire season’s worth of money, and my reputation is being tainted all due to simple mistakes that should not be problems to begin with. The updating team is given the job to overview the claims that each player makes and make sure that they are updating correctly. With the updating system the way it is now, it’s pretty easy to make a simple double-claim on a post. I have done this a couple of times, specifically in AUGUST, and I was only notified of it at the end of September. I acknowledged this problem but wondered how those double-claims were able to be missed. The updating team should have let me know at least a little sooner so that I can correct my problem. But you have to understand that this shouldn’t be an issue in the first place. If the updating team is reviewing each update as they should be, double-claiming shouldn’t even be a thing, and it shouldn’t be something that anyone should be punished for, even if they were doing it on purpose. This should be chalked up to someone just making a simple mistake, especially in my case. Look, I’m lazy, I’ll say it outright. Hell, just a week ago I got told off by the HO for using a word inflator in my PTs for fuck’s sake. Up until this week, I didn’t even second guess my claims and I sure as hell never double checked them for double-claims. This should be the updating team’s job, and if someone double-claims, maybe check in with them and see if they know they’re double-claiming. In my case, there were only two cases of this, spread out through the entire month of August. I double-claimed again at the end of September, which made the updating team JUST NOW go ahead and double check all of my claims. Why am I being incriminated for a mistake that my updater ended up missing?
Overall, I’m lazy and should have been double checking my claims. I know this. But you can’t fine me 6 million dollars and 16 total TPE because of something that the updater missed and can easily be labelled as just pure laziness, especially given who I am and what I've done in the past with my word inflator. That’s not who I am, I'm not a cheater, and it's wrong to punish me as such.
Consider this my appeal. I’ll be answering questions if anyone has them. I know this will most likely be unsuccessful, but I want to clear my name and tell everyone why this is a harsh punishment for a simple mistake that I should have been notified about MUCH sooner.
TL;DR: The simple and short answer is because I'm a fifteen year old BOY who's too popular in his city. I've put myself up on a pedestal due to my popularity in Saskatoon and so I carry it wherever I go. I'm the guy who I told myself I would never be and I hate it, so I'm trying to change it. I admit my wrongs, I attempt to correct my mistakes, and I'm listening to opinions while keeping myself open to critics. Honestly, the egotistical part just comes from, well, my inflated ego due to being at the top here, and being at the top in Saskatoon. Instagram creates a platform of instant gratification for me, and so it's hyper ego inflation at it's finest.
@ADwyer87 @`To12143` @Muford @tlk742 @DeathOnReddit
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - jaskins811 - 10-21-2018
Don't know much about the situation, but the updater updating you definitely should have been noticing that a lot sooner and whoever the updater was is partly to blame in my opinion.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - YoungTB - 10-21-2018
(10-21-2018, 11:48 PM)jaskins811 Wrote:Don't know much about the situation, but the updater updating you definitely should have been noticing that a lot sooner and whoever the updater was is partly to blame in my opinion.
The updaters have a tough job and I totally understand that. I'm sure they have a lot on their plate. But they have to make sure that no one is double-claiming, that's just part of their job. If they double-checked everyone's updates, then the entire double-claiming problem wouldn't be a thing, even if people were doing it deliberately. The only reason why I could see this being punishable is if both the player AND the updater were letting it slide. But that is absolutely not what is happening here.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - timeconsumer - 10-22-2018
This is Dermot's fault
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - LGMForever - 10-22-2018
As one who has updated you in the past (I don’t believe I was one of the updaters who didn’t notice the double-claim but correct me if I’m wrong), I’d recommend being more specific when labeling whichever PT/Activity Check you’re claiming instead of having the updates need to click the link to see. I know that some of them (mock draft specifically) don’t require a more specific label for obvious reasons, but just having it say “PT” instead of the specific PT makes it harder for the updates to notice stuff like this. Especially when we are kind of going through fast since it typically takes 45 minutes to an hour, we won’t dive deep into links and all that unless there’s a blatant issue visible.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - YoungTB - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 12:25 AM)LGMForever Wrote:As one who has updated you in the past (I don’t believe I was one of the updaters who didn’t notice the double-claim but correct me if I’m wrong), I’d recommend being more specific when labeling whichever PT/Activity Check you’re claiming instead of having the updates need to click the link to see. I know that some of them (mock draft specifically) don’t require a more specific label for obvious reasons, but just having it say “PT” instead of the specific PT makes it harder for the updates to notice stuff like this. Especially when we are kind of going through fast since it typically takes 45 minutes to an hour, we won’t dive deep into links and all that unless there’s a blatant issue visible.
I get that it takes some time to get through with updating entirely, but clicking through links and just checking the titles doesn’t take longer than a minute, maybe. Especially for shorter updates.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - RedCydranth - 10-22-2018
I'm extremely meticulous about my updates because I don't want to accidentally do exactly what you did. And the sole reason I've never applied to be an updater was because I've seen what an utter mess people make of their update page. There's no rhyme or reason to half of the formats to people's update pages. It's not that hard to properly label and maintain an organized update page.
The worst thing I've done is accidentally link the wrong link when claiming something (like link to an AC which I claimed that same post because I failed to properly copy the link when tried to claim a PT or something like that.) but I never actually claimed the AC twice. It was a simple copy/paste error which the Updater realized, looked in the proper claim thread and realized I still had the right TPE amount claimed but the link was just off. Because I label all my claims easily, the updater could tell, without issue, what I intended on claiming and was able to rectify my mistake without issue.
Looking at yours, TB, you could label a bit better as to help yourself and the updater who does your team. Simply labeling it (PT) doesn't help when it could be ANY PT you're linking and has to double check the last couple weeks to see if you're linking the right one or not. instead make it say (S11 PT 1) or (S11 Trivia 1) or (S11 Week 1 Predictions), that way you can see, and they can see easily what you're claiming so this doesn't happen again. It's a few extra keystrokes that saves you and the updater plenty of time.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - Tinkler - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 12:23 AM)RedCydranth Wrote:I'm extremely meticulous about my updates because I don't want to accidentally do exactly what you did. And the sole reason I've never applied to be an updater was because I've seen what an utter mess people make of their update page. There's no rhyme or reason to half of the formats to people's update pages. It's not that hard to properly label and maintain an organized update page.
The worst thing I've done is accidentally link the wrong link when claiming something (like link to an AC which I claimed that same post because I failed to properly copy the link when tried to claim a PT or something like that.) but I never actually claimed the AC twice. It was a simple copy/paste error which the Updater realized, looked in the proper claim thread and realized I still had the right TPE amount claimed but the link was just off. Because I label all my claims easily, the updater could tell, without issue, what I intended on claiming and was able to rectify my mistake without issue.
Looking at yours, TB, you could label a bit better as to help yourself and the updater who does your team. Simply labeling it (PT) doesn't help when it could be ANY PT you're linking and has to double check the last couple weeks to see if you're linking the right one or not. instead make it say (S11 PT 1) or (S11 Trivia 1) or (S11 Week 1 Predictions), that way you can see, and they can see easily what you're claiming so this doesn't happen again. It's a few extra keystrokes that saves you and the updater plenty of time.
This ^. I accidently made a similar mistake to TB because every week I quote my own last post and change the numbers in "current attributes". I forgot to change the links for activity check and weekly training and since I had thought they were already linked they weren't done. Keeping my update page organized has really helped me out.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - dropbear - 10-22-2018
FWIW I put forward a rule proposal that users should follow a set template for updates, and it seems to have been well-received by HO/other GMs from what I can see.
I'm hesitant to point the finger at updaters because:
A) as mentioned by RedCydranth, a majority of people's update pages make no fucking sense and are a total mess
B) they're responsible for updating entire teams. We're responsible for maintaing a single update page - our own. I think we should be held more accountable for making sure our own work is correct before pointing the finger at people who sacrifice their time on the weekend to help the league by doing one of the shittiest jobs going around
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - Kendrick - 10-22-2018
(10-21-2018, 10:25 PM)LGMForever Wrote:As one who has updated you in the past (I don’t believe I was one of the updaters who didn’t notice the double-claim but correct me if I’m wrong), I’d recommend being more specific when labeling whichever PT/Activity Check you’re claiming instead of having the updates need to click the link to see. I know that some of them (mock draft specifically) don’t require a more specific label for obvious reasons, but just having it say “PT” instead of the specific PT makes it harder for the updates to notice stuff like this. Especially when we are kind of going through fast since it typically takes 45 minutes to an hour, we won’t dive deep into links and all that unless there’s a blatant issue visible.Yes and no. An Updater should be checking all links anyways. That's their job.
Maybe we should have updaters update during the off-season as well? I mean it was 3 weeks before I got updated again.