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+---- Thread: *A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports League (/showthread.php?tid=28688)
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - Raven - 01-05-2021
"Because I know pretty much every person whose been in HO and even commissioner up until about S17 or S18 where I finally gave up on understanding this league. There's really nothing outstanding about any of them."
While it's true, no reason to attack me ):
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - OrbitingDeath - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 06:39 AM)Raven Wrote: While it's true, no reason to attack me ):
We don't need reasons for that Raven
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - Tomasnz - 01-05-2021
I am only just starting and like the premise. But this triggered me so just going to call it out and then continue to read.
Quote:All I'm trying to get to here is that the American system is usually seen as the basic system for the rest of the world (mostly due to the Americans forcing the system onto everyone else)
Nope.
Very few governments have an elected head of the executive and rather use leadership of the legasitive to run the gears of the government. Likewise in some systems the judiciary makes law through precedent and other systems it doesn't.
I guess what I am saying is I reject your premise that the US system is in anyway seen as a basic system of democracy. Especially by those outside the US.
Now to keep reading ?
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - manicmav36 - 01-05-2021
@Jiggly_333 Need I remind you that this is a sim league on the internet, and not a country bring run by a government.
I do find it a bit frustrating that people keep making these very incorrect assumptions about how the appeals team operates, yet not one person has even bothered to talk to anyone actually involved with the appeals team. Isn't one of the commandments of journalism to verify your information?
And how could I ignore the personal attack? Please come at me when you've actually contributed something useful to the league.
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - Jiggly_333 - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 11:57 AM)manicmav36 Wrote: @Jiggly_333 Need I remind you that this is a sim league on the internet, and not a country bring run by a government.
I do find it a bit frustrating that people keep making these very incorrect assumptions about how the appeals team operates, yet not one person has even bothered to talk to anyone actually involved with the appeals team. Isn't one of the commandments of journalism to verify your information?
And how could I ignore the personal attack? Please come at me when you've actually contributed something useful to the league.
![[Image: 2e9b1c1a508cb7d5b7e6cd0600e1c1c2.gif]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/9b/1c/2e9b1c1a508cb7d5b7e6cd0600e1c1c2.gif)
How can you get so angry about a shitpost? You hiding something? Feeling guilty?
I never mentioned you, I never even thought about you while making this article. You're the one giving out personal attacks and trying to create drama here. I just made a shitpost.
(01-05-2021, 06:39 AM)Raven Wrote: "Because I know pretty much every person whose been in HO and even commissioner up until about S17 or S18 where I finally gave up on understanding this league. There's really nothing outstanding about any of them."Friggin weeb.
While it's true, no reason to attack me ):
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - manicmav36 - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 01:33 PM)Jiggly_333 Wrote:(01-05-2021, 11:57 AM)manicmav36 Wrote: @Jiggly_333 Need I remind you that this is a sim league on the internet, and not a country bring run by a government.
I do find it a bit frustrating that people keep making these very incorrect assumptions about how the appeals team operates, yet not one person has even bothered to talk to anyone actually involved with the appeals team. Isn't one of the commandments of journalism to verify your information?
And how could I ignore the personal attack? Please come at me when you've actually contributed something useful to the league.
How can you get so angry about a shitpost? You hiding something? Feeling guilty?
I never mentioned you, I never even thought about you while making this article. You're the one giving out personal attacks and trying to create drama here. I just made a shitpost.
(01-05-2021, 06:39 AM)Raven Wrote: "Because I know pretty much every person whose been in HO and even commissioner up until about S17 or S18 where I finally gave up on understanding this league. There's really nothing outstanding about any of them."Friggin weeb.
While it's true, no reason to attack me ):
You say you never mentioned me, but then immediately reply to a quite that makes reference to me, and many others. So.... Yeah.
I'd still love to talk to you about the appeals team though. Obviously, you need some clarification.
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - Troen - 01-05-2021
(01-04-2021, 08:45 PM)Jiggly_333 Wrote: Basically, power is granted by the consent of the governed and without a democratic system in place, the "mandate of the people" just feels a tiny bit in the balance.
Unlike a government, you can trivially opt out of the ISFL. So, any attempt at making oppressive rules still requires the consent of the governed community because they'll just leave otherwise. Sure, maybe not everyone would leave, but the worse the rules the more people will leave until the league doesn't have a sustainable environment.
(And obviously, the ISFL unlike the government has the supreme power known as "whoever is paying for the domains" which can result in arbitrary takeovers/shutdowns regardless of anything else (though also obviously people could use other locations to regroup on an alternative site were that to happen))
Edit: I wanted to say I did like this article as a thought piece, even if it sounds like I might be disagreeing.
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - Jimi64 - 01-05-2021
I stopped reading when I found out the author wasn't actually anime Karl Marx
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - Bayley - 01-05-2021
(01-04-2021, 09:27 PM)AdamS Wrote: reminder that Jiggly is 1-0 at picking gms0-1, bayley sux lmap
RE: A Treatise on the Structure of Government Systems in Online Simulation Sports Leagues - Memento Mori - 01-05-2021
Your discussion of the worst-case scenario kinda derailed things a little but think there's some things worth discussing.
On the points about the appeals team in particular: the amount of power that appeals has is really unclear, and I don't think that the appeals team saying people should come talk to them if they want to understand is enough.
I think Sermo's punishment is a really good case study into where power lies in the league (to be as clear, I don't want to talk about what Sermo said/did and I'm appealing to it because I think it makes the point well). HO acted in a way the league didn't like, so people rebelled by talking about the issue in ISFL gen chat rather than in the usual private channels until HO reversed its decision.
As I was Liberty co-GM at the time, I had a direct line to HO in management chat (your average user doesn't get this privileged access to HO) where I raised my concerns about the situation because I didn't see any other way for people to have an HO decision reversed other than to complain about it really loudly in public. I was told that the correct thing to do in a situation like that is to take it to the appeals team, because they oversee other HO actions and not just punishments. This was the first I'd heard of it, so I pointed out that this isn't stated publicly and that while HO is listed first in the Official Jobs List, appeals are listed last and without an explanation of their function. HO said they'd make this clearer, which I'm not sure has happened since then. I still don't think it's very clear.
With me recalling this conversation, when DSFL HO ruled that a rule in the rulebook said something it doesn't in S26 Bondi Beach appealed it. The appeals team didn't think it was their place to argue with DSFL HO's interpretation of the rule, and declined to take a position on it.
The appeals team doesn't want, or perhaps doesn't think it has, the power that HO is willing to give to it. HO might check itself because it thinks appeals will check them if it doesn't, and I'm fairly sure if HO did something completely disastrous then appeals or the site owner(s?) would step in but it's far from ideal.