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+----- Thread: S28 Rules Summit (/showthread.php?tid=30948)
RE: S28 Rules Summit - siddhus - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 11:12 AM)Maglubiyet Wrote:ill just say that, I know that a lot of the voters were unhappy that they had to vote on this in the official rules ballot, not really sure who proposed it.Quote:6. SD must remain in ISFL HO. Forever.We should question whether the users that proposed and voted for this rule should continue to be eligible for voting in the future. An overwhelming majority of the userbase does not have a direct vote in league matters, and seeing a proposal like this along with 9 joke votes to add it to the rulebook does not inspire much confidence that a large minority of the voting base takes their role seriously. Fortunately we have been given an offseason task that addresses this exact topic, so thank you to HO for giving us this type of platform for feedback. If you proposed or voted for this rule and simultaneously believe that a players' union type body is a farce, your position is untenable. Please reconsider using your exclusive ability to propose rules on a joke and instead solicit feedback for a proposal from other users as has been done previously.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - slate - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 11:19 AM)infinitempg Wrote:(03-22-2021, 11:12 AM)Maglubiyet Wrote:Quote:6. SD must remain in ISFL HO. Forever.We should question whether the users that proposed and voted for this rule should continue to be eligible for voting in the future. An overwhelming majority of the userbase does not have a direct vote in league matters, and seeing a proposal like this along with 9 joke votes to add it to the rulebook does not inspire much confidence that a large minority of the voting base takes their role seriously. Fortunately we have been given an offseason task that addresses this exact topic, so thank you to HO for giving us this type of platform for feedback. If you proposed or voted for this rule and simultaneously believe that a players' union type body is a farce, your position is untenable. Please reconsider using your exclusive ability to propose rules on a joke and instead solicit feedback for a proposal from other users as has been done previously.
Ok this was added as a joke on a whim because GM chat was having some fun. Didn’t expect it to make it to the official post but it gave me a chuckle. Half the GMs didn’t even know it was a joke by GM chat because they weren’t online.
So to be particularly clear - no one proposed this to be in the rule book and the people voting yes were part of the joke, there wasn’t even a no option for a while anyways, and we should all relax a bit
I'm all for GM chat having a bit of a laugh, but I also think Mag raises some good points about the optics of this and how it reflects on the rules summit process. For anyone who has been directly involved in rules discussion (as Mag has been in the past as a former GM), it's clearly apparent that there are many involved in the process who don't take it very seriously. Discussion moves extremely quickly such that it's hard for people to follow if discussion happens while they're away, lines of argument frequently get derailed in several directions at once making it impossible to hold a sustained conversation about any one particular topic, and in general there are almost as many jokes made in the rules discussion chat as actual points.
I'm not trying to cast blame at any one party, because the environment is too deeply entrenched for any one person to change. Hell, I myself have often given up and just made some low-effort humor at times because it's a nice way to release some steam that builds up from all the arguing. But I think that a joke rule proposal getting not just put on the ballot (which is itself a big issue), but also making its way into the publc-facing announcements post, is a symptom of all of these issues as Mag successfully identified. I dearly hope that we can change the cultural norms and/or structures surrounding the rules summit in the future (i.e. placing slow mode on the rules discussion Discord channels) to make it a much more productive use of everyone's time and maybe even improve how the league functions. Or at least giving the players a vote, since concerns about meme voting are irrelevant if half of the people currently involved are doing it anyway.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - qWest - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 11:23 AM)Memento Mori Wrote: To provide some additional context: Orange County voted 'For' the SD rule, not because we thought it was a good addition to the ballot or thought it was funny, but because that was the first option and I wanted to spend as little time as possible on it.Mori really do be the most efficient power GM out there, cutting all the bullcrap of moving the cursor down 6 millimeters and selecting the no option. Other GMs wouldn't have the constitution to commit this hard to the pure essence of the craft and that's why I'm happy to call Momento Mori my favorite ex-GM.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - tMuse - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 10:33 AM)iStegosauruz Wrote: 6. SD must remain in ISFL HO. Forever.
8 Definitely For - 1 For - 12 No SD Sucks
Rule Does NOT Pass
Why the fuck is that on the official ballot? How can a TEMPORARY forum banner for the ultimus champs be "too meme-y" and then we have shit like this as a rule proposal?
Jesus christ, i've heard enough complains about having to waste time to vote on that.
What would've happend if the rule passed? Just curious.
Either you guys stand by your principles or you don't.
You guys want to make the league a better place for the users? How about you invest some fucking time and bring the union "alive" instead of coming up with some fucking rules which, apparently, aren't "too meme-y"
/rant
Edit/Clarification:
I am all for fun and games. Don't get me wrong, but shit like this toxicates everything else from the rules summit as we - the playerbase with no insight in rule summits - have no deeper insight in what rule is meant as a joke. Some places need some seriousness and this is one of them.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - iStegosauruz - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 11:12 AM)Maglubiyet Wrote:Quote:6. SD must remain in ISFL HO. Forever.We should question whether the users that proposed and voted for this rule should continue to be eligible for voting in the future. An overwhelming majority of the userbase does not have a direct vote in league matters, and seeing a proposal like this along with 9 joke votes to add it to the rulebook does not inspire much confidence that a large minority of the voting base takes their role seriously. Fortunately we have been given an offseason task that addresses this exact topic, so thank you to HO for giving us this type of platform for feedback. If you proposed or voted for this rule and simultaneously believe that a players' union type body is a farce, your position is untenable. Please reconsider using your exclusive ability to propose rules on a joke and instead solicit feedback for a proposal from other users as has been done previously.
Couple of things:
First, excluding that proposal we had 15 rule proposals.
In Season 27 we had 10.
In Season 26 we had 17.
In Season 25 we had 21.
In Season 24 we had 19.
In Season 23 we had we had 11.
In any of these seasons we are not using our full slate of rule proposals. If the community at large has changes they'd like to see in the rulebook approach your GM, any relevant department head, or any member of Head Office. We have MORE than enough space.
That is not a vindication or opinion on the union or providing some level of vote to the general member base. Its an acknowledgement that the union/member base voting ideas came on the heels of a six (and maybe more) season low in rule proposals. I respect and understand that the general member base of the league does not possess direct votes but there are still ways to influence proceedings in rules summits, and one major indicator (not the only, but one we can look at) of that is rule quantity.
Second, we passed an incredible number of rules this offseason that have huge impact on the league at large. If anyone here would like to zero-in on one proposal for the fun of GMs and HO and completely ignore the substantive changes that the league just passed, thats their choice. I urge league members to look at the fact we just codified sets of punishments almost unanimously, refocused one of the more controversial and confusing awards, clarified regression, codified some expansion procedures, passed multiple rules to address issues with ISFL/DSFL position switching, and voted to give the league more money for quality graphics. These are changes in multiple different areas of the league that are good for the league.
Allowing General Managers and Head Office to have fun with a fellow member of that group during the busiest time of the season for us - two drafts, regression, the Ultimus, the Ultimini, Rules Summits, Off-Season Prep, etc. - should not be used as a blackmark against anyone and isn't an indication that individuals don't take their jobs seriously. Head Office is constantly told we're too formal and don't look like relatable humans to the rest of the league. When we make decisions that showcase that fact we're criticized for doing it. The league doesn't get it both ways.
I'll be the first to understand, respect, and acknowledge it was not a smart decision to include but I take a lot of offense to using it as a mark that anyone involved in this process isn't taking their job seriously.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - Memento Mori - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 11:34 AM)qWest Wrote:If only I was this good at getting the team to win games(03-22-2021, 11:23 AM)Memento Mori Wrote: To provide some additional context: Orange County voted 'For' the SD rule, not because we thought it was a good addition to the ballot or thought it was funny, but because that was the first option and I wanted to spend as little time as possible on it.Mori really do be the most efficient power GM out there, cutting all the bullcrap of moving the cursor down 6 millimeters and selecting the no option. Other GMs wouldn't have the constitution to commit this hard to the pure essence of the craft and that's why I'm happy to call Momento Mori my favorite ex-GM.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - Sermokala - 03-22-2021
Just seems like a bizzarely tasteless move to include an in-joke in the management server in the only official communication about the entire rules summit for the season. Like someone thought it was funny that none of us could possibly understand the joke and that they wanted us to feel excluded for the sake of being excluded as we are from this.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - slate - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 11:41 AM)iStegosauruz Wrote: Allowing General Managers and Head Office to have fun with a fellow member of that group during the busiest time of the season for us - two drafts, regression, the Ultimus, the Ultimini, Rules Summits, Off-Season Prep, etc. - should not be used as a blackmark against anyone and isn't an indication that individuals don't take their jobs seriously. Head Office is constantly told we're too formal and don't look like relatable humans to the rest of the league. When we make decisions that showcase that fact we're criticized for doing it. The league doesn't get it both ways.
I understand wanting to add some humor to HO and make it feel more relatable / part of the rest of the league, but it shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp that Rules Summit is probably the single worst place to attempt to do that.
RE: S28 Rules Summit - deadlunatic - 03-22-2021
My main question is why are votes not transparent?
RE: S28 Rules Summit - SDCore - 03-22-2021
Hahaha can't hold me back. Also so many salty bitches can't take a joke eh?
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