(07-14-2021, 10:42 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 08:21 PM)Oles Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 07:42 PM)Gragg9 Wrote: If multiple accounts are allowed, there is nothing stopping me from retiring, recreating under an alt account, getting drafted by the teams that voted for it, then immediately retiring again. over and over until the rule is repealed.

Waaaaay too open for abuse

While I understand that there is a worry about abuse, I don't really see what someone would gain from this and why someone would do that. It doesn't really make sense to me to abuse constant recreation and just seems like a lot of time and effort to do nothing of value. Most users who will take advantage of allowing alts will create as a fresh start, and I think that sort of abuse is just something that's very unlikely

I feel this is a very dangerous thing to allow. The fact that someone who is an absolute ass and overall detriment to the league could create a new account, put on a nice act, and have a shot at important league jobs such as GM, HO, simmer, etc. is scary. 

The lack of trust that comes out of finding out somebody is not who they say they are is challenging emotionally as well, as soft as that sounds. Ik it seems harmless but I completely disagree.

Its very similar to catfishing. Its just morally wrong to me. If you have a poor image, work to repair it on your own like an adult and don't take the easy way out. Hell, look at Void. Started out as "the next Zamir" according to the league, and now he's one of my favorite people in the NY locker room and has been a great part of league based on everything I've seen. THAT is how you get your fresh start.

(07-14-2021, 11:17 PM)Oles Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 10:42 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 08:21 PM)Oles Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 07:42 PM)Gragg9 Wrote: If multiple accounts are allowed, there is nothing stopping me from retiring, recreating under an alt account, getting drafted by the teams that voted for it, then immediately retiring again. over and over until the rule is repealed.

Waaaaay too open for abuse

While I understand that there is a worry about abuse, I don't really see what someone would gain from this and why someone would do that. It doesn't really make sense to me to abuse constant recreation and just seems like a lot of time and effort to do nothing of value. Most users who will take advantage of allowing alts will create as a fresh start, and I think that sort of abuse is just something that's very unlikely

I feel this is a very dangerous thing to allow. The fact that someone who is an absolute ass and overall detriment to the league could create a new account, put on a nice act, and have a shot at important league jobs such as GM, HO, simmer, etc. is scary. 

The lack of trust that comes out of finding out somebody is not who they say they are is challenging emotionally as well, as soft as that sounds. Ik it seems harmless but I completely disagree.

Its very similar to catfishing. Its just morally wrong to me. If you have a poor image, work to repair it on your own like an adult and don't take the easy way out. Hell, look at Void. Started out as "the next Zamir" according to the league, and now he's one of my favorite people in the NY locker room and has been a great part of league based on everything I've seen. THAT is how you get your fresh start.

What about the people who have done nothing wrong in the league, but have been constantly attacked and treated like a lesser by people, the ones who have had to deal with bullying by peers in what is supposed to be an accepting community? Plenty of users have been asses to others to the point of causing them to completely leave with 0 consequences, plenty of users have been mocked, made fun of, and treated like crap with no help from people who are supposed to help. Hell I went through a fucking year of harassment by a commissioner of a league in multiple leagues and just about nothing happened from that, and I was very close to up and leaving. Also, if someone is an ass on one account, but then they try to do better with a second account and want a fresh start, why not? Why blackball someone from ever doing anything in the league if they're trying to change, if the biggest offense they had was being an ass? Should we not allow second chances and should we not give people a shot to make things right? That's all those people want when they make a fresh account, a new start in a community they enjoy, as long as they are not avoiding a punishment in some way I see no issue with allowing an alt account as a fresh start. Some people can't work to repair their image because of the way the ISFL has treated them, and continues to treat them. Plenty of users who are gone still get shit on to this day in locker rooms and on the site, and when they try to repair their image or work on it they proceed to get shit on for it. Extremely demeaning and detrimental to the league to say the adult thing is to work on repairing your image, while everyone else does not do the adult thing and forget and let people move on. I don't see how this is anything like catfishing, unless you want to say the league as a whole is catfishing since we constantly use real people's images for a fake football league.

(07-14-2021, 08:03 PM)Crunk Wrote: You’re totally right about Rule 3 of the ISFL proposals. It just gets re-proposed and voted down endlessly.

There should be some sort of rule against that, imo.

(07-15-2021, 09:09 AM)TeyonSchavari Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 11:17 PM)Oles Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 10:42 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 08:21 PM)Oles Wrote:

(07-14-2021, 07:42 PM)Gragg9 Wrote: If multiple accounts are allowed, there is nothing stopping me from retiring, recreating under an alt account, getting drafted by the teams that voted for it, then immediately retiring again. over and over until the rule is repealed.

Waaaaay too open for abuse

While I understand that there is a worry about abuse, I don't really see what someone would gain from this and why someone would do that. It doesn't really make sense to me to abuse constant recreation and just seems like a lot of time and effort to do nothing of value. Most users who will take advantage of allowing alts will create as a fresh start, and I think that sort of abuse is just something that's very unlikely

I feel this is a very dangerous thing to allow. The fact that someone who is an absolute ass and overall detriment to the league could create a new account, put on a nice act, and have a shot at important league jobs such as GM, HO, simmer, etc. is scary. 

The lack of trust that comes out of finding out somebody is not who they say they are is challenging emotionally as well, as soft as that sounds. Ik it seems harmless but I completely disagree.

Its very similar to catfishing. Its just morally wrong to me. If you have a poor image, work to repair it on your own like an adult and don't take the easy way out. Hell, look at Void. Started out as "the next Zamir" according to the league, and now he's one of my favorite people in the NY locker room and has been a great part of league based on everything I've seen. THAT is how you get your fresh start.

What about the people who have done nothing wrong in the league, but have been constantly attacked and treated like a lesser by people, the ones who have had to deal with bullying by peers in what is supposed to be an accepting community? Plenty of users have been asses to others to the point of causing them to completely leave with 0 consequences, plenty of users have been mocked, made fun of, and treated like crap with no help from people who are supposed to help. Hell I went through a fucking year of harassment by a commissioner of a league in multiple leagues and just about nothing happened from that, and I was very close to up and leaving. Also, if someone is an ass on one account, but then they try to do better with a second account and want a fresh start, why not? Why blackball someone from ever doing anything in the league if they're trying to change, if the biggest offense they had was being an ass? Should we not allow second chances and should we not give people a shot to make things right? That's all those people want when they make a fresh account, a new start in a community they enjoy, as long as they are not avoiding a punishment in some way I see no issue with allowing an alt account as a fresh start. Some people can't work to repair their image because of the way the ISFL has treated them, and continues to treat them. Plenty of users who are gone still get shit on to this day in locker rooms and on the site, and when they try to repair their image or work on it they proceed to get shit on for it. Extremely demeaning and detrimental to the league to say the adult thing is to work on repairing your image, while everyone else does not do the adult thing and forget and let people move on. I don't see how this is anything like catfishing, unless you want to say the league as a whole is catfishing since we constantly use real people's images for a fake football league.

You have valid points. I'm just saying, its a double edged sword. Sure, some could use this well, never cause problems and overall create a better experience for them and everyone around them. That also relies on others never finding out that you are the same person as someone they have interacted with in the past for an extended period of time. Others would use it to gain advantages that otherwise wouldn't be available, to screw over teams, etc. It also makes it so your past infractions are automatically wiped out. Somebody with tampering on their record for example could then retire and create a whole new account and bypass the GM ban, or use it so that if they tamper again they get the lighter punishment. Its risky, and there's gonna be some asshole that ruins it for everyone.

> Why blackball someone from ever doing anything in the league if they're trying to change, if the biggest offense they had was being an ass? Should we not allow second chances and should we not give people a shot to make things right?

Also, to address this specifically, we shouldn't blackball them if they're trying to change, of course I agree with that. We should allow second chances, but why not put in the work to change as the person people know you as and repair your image that way? AC and Thiath are examples of people that admitted that the way they acted was detrimental and took on the challenge to change, and thats something I respect. It may work out, you may change or it may just be who you are. If you want a second chance after creating a negative reputation, you should have to work for it, as you would in real life. Creating a new account is a cop out that skips the process of regaining trust which I feel is important in human growth. And to clarify I'm saying this statement specifically for people that are just assholes, not for people that get a lot of shit and are looking for a fresh start.

I was a bit condescending with my 'be an adult' comment, I'll give you that, for that I'm sorry. In my opinion, the solution as proposed unfortunately opens up too many additional potential issues and exploits. Your heart is definitely in the right place and I have a lot of sympathy for those that want to change or a fresh start but are held back as well. I just don't think this is the right way to do it.

(07-15-2021, 09:52 AM)Air Crou. Wrote: You know what? I will say it. Even if I admitted my mistakes, the road back feels unrewarding. And a specific recent event has felt like a lowblow by Tyson. But keep trying I guess?

(07-16-2021, 02:58 PM)JKortesi81 Wrote: "11. Job Heads must obtain HO approval for all new hires, including job head replacements. Approval must be sought before hiring announcements are posted. This holds Job Heads to the same standard as GMs who must by existing rule gain HO approval"


Jesus christ. I didn't see this until i read your article.

Head Office can seriously fuck off. I've done media for like 159,032 years now, and no, i don't need them trying to micromanage my shit EVEN MORE. Like, go the fuck away guys, seriously. This is such a stupid idea. Maybe pay attention to catching multis and other things that matter. I'll keep running my team how I see fit. I don't need them telling me who i can and can't hire. Sheesh.

(07-16-2021, 02:58 PM)JKortesi81 Wrote: "11. Job Heads must obtain HO approval for all new hires, including job head replacements. Approval must be sought before hiring announcements are posted. This holds Job Heads to the same standard as GMs who must by existing rule gain HO approval"


Jesus christ. I didn't see this until i read your article.

Head Office can seriously fuck off. I've done media for like 159,032 years now, and no, i don't need them trying to micromanage my shit EVEN MORE. Like, go the fuck away guys, seriously. This is such a stupid idea. Maybe pay attention to catching multis and other things that matter. I'll keep running my team how I see fit. I don't need them telling me who i can and can't hire. Sheesh.