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+---- Thread: Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet (/showthread.php?tid=5220)
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - ErMurazor - 10-15-2017
I'm back on the grid. Holy shit where do I begin.
First, I like every member of the head office. Obviously you're a great group of guys and I have nothing against any of you. I have supported you guys through ever decision that has been made even when I didn't agree. Now...
This ruling is pathetic. Cap violations should be punished, I completely agree. In season one two playoff teams played over the cap. One of them the same 2 million that I believe the Legion were over this season (that team lost the Ultimus game). Those teams received 0 punishment. I do not believe the team that should be made an example out of is the worst team in the league, going into the largest free agency we'll ever have. This is not good for ANYBODY in this league.
I do not think the head office's responsiveness to issues should be based on how many media articles people right about it. You're all capable individuals that should be able to work together to make consistent and fair decisions for the good of the league.
In terms of the player exchange bet. It was a bet that I do not believe ever should have been allowed. However, I would be shocked if any of you were not away of it WEEKS ago. The fact that a ruling has been made voiding the bet AFTER it was won by a side is ridiculous. Talk about kicking a dog while it's down. Even voiding the bet after a single Legion win would have been a response I could support but this is ridiculous. The Legion have been celebrating acquiring Cushing, it has been the talk of the league, taking that away at this point is going to crush that team.
Obviously, Cushing is probably going to be the most impacted by this. I don't know what he wants or where he wants to play. But to be honest, that shouldn't have ANY bearing on any of this. I like Cushing, but he made the bet and he know the risks of it when he made it.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - cosbornballboy - 10-15-2017
(10-15-2017, 07:10 PM)ErMurazor Wrote:I'm back on the grid. Holy shit where do I begin.
First, I like every member of the head office. Obviously you're a great group of guys and I have nothing against any of you. I have supported you guys through ever decision that has been made even when I didn't agree. Now...
This ruling is pathetic. Cap violations should be punished, I completely agree. In season one two playoff teams played over the cap. One of them the same 2 million that I believe the Legion were over this season (that team lost the Ultimus game). Those teams received 0 punishment. I do not believe the team that should be made an example out of is the worst team in the league, going into the largest free agency we'll ever have. This is not good for ANYBODY in this league.
I do not think the head office's responsiveness to issues should be based on how many media articles people right about it. You're all capable individuals that should be able to work together to make consistent and fair decisions for the good of the league.
In terms of the player exchange bet. It was a bet that I do not believe ever should have been allowed. However, I would be shocked if any of you were not away of it WEEKS ago. The fact that a ruling has been made voiding the bet AFTER it was won by a side is ridiculous. Talk about kicking a dog while it's down. Even voiding the bet after a single Legion win would have been a response I could support but this is ridiculous. The Legion have been celebrating acquiring Cushing, it has been the talk of the league, taking that away at this point is going to crush that team.
Obviously, Cushing is probably going to be the most impacted by this. I don't know what he wants or where he wants to play. But to be honest, that shouldn't have ANY bearing on any of this. I like Cushing, but he made the bet and he know the risks of it when he made it.
I have the EXACT same opinion thank you Er
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - manicmav36 - 10-15-2017
Cushing made the bet, he should honor it. Failure to do so would have him lose any credibility in my eyes.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - iamslm22 - 10-15-2017
(10-15-2017, 10:10 PM)ErMurazor Wrote:I'm back on the grid. Holy shit where do I begin.
First, I like every member of the head office. Obviously you're a great group of guys and I have nothing against any of you. I have supported you guys through ever decision that has been made even when I didn't agree. Now...
This ruling is pathetic. Cap violations should be punished, I completely agree. In season one two playoff teams played over the cap. One of them the same 2 million that I believe the Legion were over this season (that team lost the Ultimus game). Those teams received 0 punishment. I do not believe the team that should be made an example out of is the worst team in the league, going into the largest free agency we'll ever have. This is not good for ANYBODY in this league.
I do not think the head office's responsiveness to issues should be based on how many media articles people right about it. You're all capable individuals that should be able to work together to make consistent and fair decisions for the good of the league.
In terms of the player exchange bet. It was a bet that I do not believe ever should have been allowed. However, I would be shocked if any of you were not away of it WEEKS ago. The fact that a ruling has been made voiding the bet AFTER it was won by a side is ridiculous. Talk about kicking a dog while it's down. Even voiding the bet after a single Legion win would have been a response I could support but this is ridiculous. The Legion have been celebrating acquiring Cushing, it has been the talk of the league, taking that away at this point is going to crush that team.
Obviously, Cushing is probably going to be the most impacted by this. I don't know what he wants or where he wants to play. But to be honest, that shouldn't have ANY bearing on any of this. I like Cushing, but he made the bet and he know the risks of it when he made it.
Not to pile on, but man ER, you fucking hit the nail on the head. This response is perfect.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - Keyg_an - 10-15-2017
I think it says something when everyone seems to disagree with the punishment.
We'll take the punishment and keep walking heads high, but man, come on.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - adam2552 - 10-15-2017
I think the biggest thing lacking from this response is any way to prevent it from happening again. The league (read Head Office) should be responsible for verifying the salary cap implications of every transaction. While the team is responsible to manage their salary cap, any move that would put them over the cap should be rejected by the league.
It is my opinion that there should be a Google Sheet with all player contracts on it. This way everyone could get a quick glance at salary cap, upcoming FAs, etc. It would take a bit of updating at the beginning of each season, but would be relatively simple to maintain in-season.
Edit: Just to add on, I agree with the rest of the posters that the Legion should not be punished. The transaction should have been rejected by the head office when it put them over the cap without a corresponding move to put them below the cap.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - 7hawk77 - 10-16-2017
Things really aren't that simple. I'm not going to debate the ruling because we are happy with it and it's not changing.
I will say that we put significant thought in to this and I don't think people are looking enough in to the context beneath the initial rulings.
To those saying that LVL needs to get hit harder by the breaking the salary cap:
LVL didn't really have leadership early in the season. GM was passed around early on in the season due to RFFO's accident which after that Ben was brought on. He handled the salary cap but since it was his first time with GMing responsibilities, he messed up by 2 million (which isn't really that significant).
We now have a good precedent set up where if teams go over, we can penalize them 1.5 times the amount the following year. If teams end up screwing up multiple seasons concurrently, more penalties can follow.
I don't think that RFFO or Ben did this out of maliciousness. It was probably just due to inexperience. I also don't think it would be a good idea to penalize and decimate LVL further than our ruling. They are already struggling and if we went further then we would be destroying the spirit of competition by crippling one of the weakest teams.
As far as KCKolbe and RFFO and that bet. In my opinion, it's against the rules and is just masked tampering.
- Tampering is defined as a player or GM approaching a player under contract with another team or who's rights are owned by another team outside of the public forums, with the purpose of persuading them to join your team, request a trade, or hold out on contract negotiations.
A player (KCKolbe) approached another player (RFFO) under contract with the purpose of creating a hold out/trade. Regardless if this was with a bet out in the open, it doesn't matter. It still is one person impacting the other and forcing them to hold out or trade based on the outcome of the bet.
I will say, people might be upset that KCKolbe is off the hook. He still has every right to hit FA or do whatever he wants. If he felt the need to honor the deal, he could easily holdout or request a trade or do whatever he wants. That's on him on we wanted to give him that option.
However, the head office felt it very necessary to show that these types of bets are not encouraged and will not be tolerated in the future.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - 7hawk77 - 10-16-2017
(10-15-2017, 10:58 PM)adam2552 Wrote:I think the biggest thing lacking from this response is any way to prevent it from happening again.
This is something we will look in to fixing.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - Bzerkap - 10-16-2017
(10-15-2017, 08:14 PM)RavensFanFromOntario Wrote:That's fair, as long as Bzerkap didn't was also okay with it it seemed fine.I absolutely hated the bet but didn't see enough wrong with it personally to constitute it as tampering circumvention or anything like that.
Las Vegas Legion Cap Hit and KCKolbe Bet - 7hawk77 - 10-16-2017
(10-15-2017, 11:05 PM)Bzerkap Wrote:I absolutely hated the bet but didn't see enough wrong with it personally to constitute it as tampering circumvention or anything like that.
You might not be the best person to determine if something is tampering...
