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+--- Thread: Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response (/showthread.php?tid=10850)
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - iamslm22 - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 08:08 AM)Official DT Wrote:It's not that tough of a job tbh lol
@bovovovo sounds like we have a new volunteer!
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - Tomen - 10-22-2018
I guess you can thank for me that. I was the Updater to spot you double claiming since I was hired as the Philly Updater 3 weeks ago.
As a lot of people already said in this thread: Labeling your updates better would have avoided this whole mess. Each I time I saw you fucking up I messaged Bovo so he can handle it. I gotta say after the 3rd time I was pretty pissed how this could happen and thought that you might just not be fucking up but deliberately trying to sneak in some more TPE.
In my 2 IRL years as an Updater in various sim leagues I have never seen such a thing happen.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - Daybe - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 02:59 AM)Official DT Wrote:To TB: Not sure how you do your updates as I haven't peeked at them but I label mine. Again not sure if you do or not, but I usually have my update thread pulled up when grabbing things to update my guy with.
To the issue at hand: The updater(s) should be at fault here as well because they let this go on. Sure some people's updates may look a mess, but it's also their job to spot inaccuracies like this. This could have all been prevented had said updater(s) looked and realized the date(s)/task(s).
To HO: Seems a bit much for him. The punishment should be split down the middle with the updater(s) as that would be more than enough fair punishment. I mean being an updater, your job is also to make sure no cheating happens. That means clicking links, checking dates and which task(s) are being updated. If an updater or updaters allowed this to persist without saying something, shouldn't they be at fault as well?
Why would it be the updater's fault? Seriously, I don't get the point of punishing the people who are willing to take 1-2 hours out of their weekend.
Maybe if it was a reoccurring issue with the updater forgetting to audit the updates.
In this case, what strikes me as odd is how he did it multiple times, after
A) being warned by his updater
B) being warned by his GM
and then C) doing it again.
It's not the updater's fault that said player's updates are messy. And it's probably on the updater for missing it the first time. But every single other time is on YoungTB because he was aware of the issue yet persisted to break the rules.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - Daybe - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 07:00 AM)iamslm22 Wrote:@bovovovo sounds like we have a new volunteer!
we should put him in the DSFL. That way he can fix updates on a constant basis AND update 25 users per week.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - Beaver - 10-22-2018
Ah yes, the famous Process.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - AdamS - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 05:38 AM)kckolbe Wrote:Oh, so double after the void. Plus 6 million. Not gonna lie, I think that is too harsh. Given that this was the third instance in under a month, I get it.
I am glad that HO penalized small amounts, and I hope we see more of that in the future.
this is the only thing in this entire thread that has surprised me
Kolbe thinking the HO is being too harsh.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - YoungTB - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 05:13 AM)DeathOnReddit Wrote:Were not going to punish updaters for your mistakes.
...Did I ever say I wanted this to happen? All I'm saying is that I'm not the only one at fault here. I don't want the updaters who didn't see the double-claim to be punished, but it's stupid to only punish me for making a mistake as you put it, especially considering this punishment is as harsh as can be for said mistake.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - DeathOnReddit - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 04:15 PM)YoungTB Wrote:...Did I ever say I wanted this to happen? All I'm saying is that I'm not the only one at fault here. I don't want the updaters who didn't see the double-claim to be punished, but it's stupid to only punish me for making a mistake as you put it, especially considering this punishment is as harsh as can be for said mistake.
There was only one updater who didn't notice it if I'm reading Bovos post correctly. The other times the updater either warned you or informed Bovo. When you make a "mistake" consistently after being warned multiple times, we have no choice but to punish you for it.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - Kendrick - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 07:51 AM)Daybe Wrote:Why would it be the updater's fault? Seriously, I don't get the point of punishing the people who are willing to take 1-2 hours out of their weekend.Let's not fancy it up anymore, they get paid. Just saying they take that time but they are also paid for it.
Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response - YoungTB - 10-22-2018
(10-22-2018, 08:00 AM)bovovovo Wrote:I agree with this, I personally don't think you were cheating because if you were you'd be the dumbest cheater ever... I think that I (hopefully) made it clear that if you kept making the same mistake I'd have to go to HO about it and let them do what they do. So I personally don't think you were cheating.
Thank you. In short, this is my main point. I never cheated. I thought that the current system would be impossible to cheat with updaters checking through the claims that people make. I guess that I was wrong, as people have told me that oftentimes updaters won't go in depth with the links that people made. This is the reason why this is even a problem in the first place. To be clear, I'm not blaming the updaters for my mistakes. More or less, I'm blaming the current system we have right now. I've heard suggestions of a set template for players to follow for update threads and I think that right now, this a great option and would help both players and updaters immensely. I've also heard that people have been working on a completely automated system for updating, which is obviously a bit more complicated, but if implemented, would make everyone's lives a lot easier.
(10-22-2018, 08:00 AM)bovovovo Wrote:The problem is if people realize that they can double-claim stuff and make beneficial mistakes on their updates time after time and never get in trouble, then they could start gaming the system by double claiming things. At worst it'd get caught and nothing happens. At best you get more TPE than you should have. Does that make sense? We have to draw the line somewhere.
I understand this, but it's so simple to make this a non-issue and it should have been from the jump. If an updater has any doubt about the claims that people are making, it really doesn't take long to just double check some links. Some update posts are super short, I'm talking maybe four claims. I know updaters have a hard job but I mean come on. The double claiming that we're talking about is exactly this. I believe when you caught on that I double claimed a couple of things in my late September update post, it was all on the same post. The second instance was the same post as well. Why should I even be punished for this if it's so detectable?
If you have to draw the line somewhere, how about instead of fining me a whole season's worth of money and a whole week's worth of TPE, make the updating system just a bit easier for both players and updaters by making a template, or by any other method to regulate updates. I can almost guarantee that this type of thing happens a good amount and I sure as hell am not the first person to accidentally double claim.
(10-22-2018, 08:00 AM)bovovovo Wrote:But, in all honesty, you are the only person I've ever seen do something like this repeatedly. Double claiming TPE tasks is not some league-wide issue, let alone doing it repeatedly after being alerted about it.
I am. But I'm not the first person to double claim TPE. For me, it's pretty easy to do because I'm not as cautious with my update threads as other people are. I didn't think it was this big issue and that I'd be punished for making a couple of mistakes that shouldn't even be affecting my play.
To add on to this, I didn't really do this in three straight weeks like it looks like I did. Once I was first notified, I did do it again on accident. But the next week I made sure that all of my claims were correct and legit. I wasn't updated until a week after, when I accidentally put in a bank statement for two ETAPs a day before. Again, I'm not sure how I missed this. But that in particular should be super easy to detect and to get rid of without having it be this huge cheating scandal like it's being made out to be.