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+---- Thread: *I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining (/showthread.php?tid=22939)
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - KoltClassic - 06-11-2020
(06-11-2020, 02:26 PM)Huskies311 Wrote:Having a list of some league personnel (Rookie Mentors, DSFL GMs, all job heads, HO) in an accessible spot I think would be a great idea
For future reference, here is the NSFL Official Jobs List: http://nsfl.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=59. I would agree that it should probably be in a more accessible spot ( it is currently under Community > Announcements > Job Applications )
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - SchwarzNarr - 06-11-2020
(06-11-2020, 03:02 PM)KoltClassic Wrote:For future reference, here is the NSFL Official Jobs List: http://nsfl.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=59. I would agree that it should probably be in a more accessible spot ( it is currently under Community > Announcements > Job Applications )
The thing is, my current DSFL team has a different GM than is on that list.
I get that they want to streamline and probably only update it once when almost all of the changes are finalized during the off season, but any updates to any personnel should updated immediately.
When even the "Official Jobs" list isn't up to date, it screams a huge issue, imo. How are new users supposed to know that "the GM switched and that's who is reaching out to you for scouting" when it's not on the list??
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - Opera_Phantom - 06-11-2020
(06-11-2020, 09:15 PM)SchwarzNarr Wrote:The thing is, my current DSFL team has a different GM than is on that list.
I get that they want to streamline and probably only update it once when almost all of the changes are finalized during the off season, but any updates to any personnel should updated immediately.
When even the "Official Jobs" list isn't up to date, it screams a huge issue, imo. How are new users supposed to know that "the GM switched and that's who is reaching out to you for scouting" when it's not on the list??
This is a completely valid input and it is easily fixable. Not that everything else you said before isn't valid, but some stuff takes way more time to fix than this one.
No idea why it takes so long for the job list to be updated.
Drizzy is not the Outlaws co-GM for 2 seasons. 2 seasons. Don't tell me no one had the time to fix this for 2 seasons.
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - TeyonSchavari - 06-11-2020
A lot of these things come out of focus once you get used to everything, so a lot of this stuff I never even had a clue people struggled with it. Hopefully, the new site we're rumored to be moving to will make all of it easier to navigate.
When I was HO, I had the goal of making the new user experience better. Not many people spoke up like this so I didn't even think of fixing a lot of this stuff because I didn't realize it was a problem. I'm kicking myself because some of it seems so obvious. I wish I would have done a better job.
The jobs list thing is my fault. I was in charge of it in my time and I wasn't the best at getting it updated. A lot of stuff took the backburner towards the end of my stint, part of why I stepped down. I trust that the new guard will take better care of it than I did
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - dave - 06-11-2020
For every new member who's been voicing their concerns around the site there are probably many more who just got frustrated and left. It would be a shame to have people lose interest in the league because the forum is difficult to navigate of all things. Like people have said I think this issue flys under the radar a lot because if you're familiar with the site it's not as noticeable of a problem. When I rejoined recently I fortunately had a pretty good idea of what to do, but I still sometimes find myself wandering through different subfourms to find the stuff I need.
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - Opera_Phantom - 06-11-2020
The job list can be "outsourced" by HO, no need to add another thing to the already massive list of things they normally have to do
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - SchwarzNarr - 06-11-2020
(06-11-2020, 03:39 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote:The jobs list thing is my fault. I was in charge of it in my time and I wasn't the best at getting it updated. A lot of stuff took the backburner towards the end of my stint, part of why I stepped down.
While I don't think that any one person can be blamed for any of these, I really appreciate seeing former HO sharing their perspective. I agree that sometimes things can get lost when you become used to the experience.
I hope that if items are still getting lost in the shuffle, that current HO can recognize that either: they need more support, they're getting overwhelmed, or what other reason it may be that things seem to be falling through the cracks. It's definitely the hardest thing possible to admit when anyone needs support.
I know I don't have the answers for fixes, I'm just glad that some of my own frustrations weren't just because of user error, but that others were feeling the same way. It feels comforting realizing I wasn't alone in this.
I hope that an open discourse about this can continue to help improve user experiences for other new users, and that the league can continue to support and streamline for their players.
I know that when I took the Rookie Survey, I did it fast because I wanted TPE. I now wish it wasn't even available to me until I had been drafted onto a team. I would have had a lot more information and input to offer.
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - ADwyer87 - 06-12-2020
I think you have valid concerns, but I think some of it is just the nature of sim leagues in the end. We can help make the new user experience better, but some of that requires many more tools that we dont quite have in place yet (that im sure are in development now but stil lnothing we can fix immediately)
I think adding the names of HO and RMs would be helpful for sure
Some things even then I'm not sure we could ever change. The tabs argument confuses me a bit. 3 tabs seems like very little? I have more than 3 tabs open very often haha. maybe im in the minority there. But mainly im just not sure how we could combine that all. You have to have a separate post for your create a player, no matter what we do that always has to be the case. the rookie guide and rookie video could be combined to one post? but im not sure that really solves much in the end. sure you have one less tab, but now any time you want to read the guide you have to scroll a bunch, and any time you want to pause the video you would have to lose your spot in the rookie guide and try and find it again afterwards, I have to imagine that removes all the positive points of having one extra tab free?
I think I can understand the perspective of a lot of explanation posts, I just think it is more or less better than the alternatives. We could either not explain things which I think would suck for many people, or we could consolidate it all into one massive post. But that one massive post would be HUGE, explaining sim leagues in its entirety is a substantial task. I have to imagine new people seeing that would be immediately overwhelmed and discouraged. It would also probably be hard to find exact info as well, if you have a specific question about X thing it would be hard to locate it all. Hell the rule book is hard to find exact rules in, and thats not a diss on the rule book at all, its just that when you have all comprehensive things then digging for that specific nugget is a chore. Us experienced users can use informed guesses to find it easier, likely new people would not have this luxury
I think adding screenshots might be nice but linking i think is also helpful. Both would have their uses. I personally prefer links as a form of learning, kind of a "hey take me exactly where you want me to go", a step by step kind of thing, but I understand not everyone is the same and do see the merit of adding screen shots
I'm not gonna lie, could be my small boomer brain, but your proposed rewording to the phrase about updates confused me a lot lol
With the forums I think Mori said it all. discord has helped us a lot with our league I think and in general is better, but thats just personally my thoughts. You can message anyone on the site if you wished! I dont think anyone would miss your message that way. also Do Not Disturb is a setting that should get rid of the notification.
About the grading issues, you would want to talk to JKortesi81 about them I believe. He does a great job and im sure wouldnt mind any input you have, he's worked hard at reforming media iirc
As for the rookie league chat, I can kind of agree? but also think in general we try to be as welcoming as possible. Ive never seen anyone who wasnt willing to answer a question for you, in all my experiences we are a very helpful bunch. I'm not sure how we would fix that personally. And while I get some off topic discussion can be distracting, I think for a lot of people that kind of discussion helps a lot. I think it helps everyone mingle and gets rid of what can sometimes be a clique-y league. I know S18 rookie chat was always popping,I think if we cracked down on a lot of off topic discussion then it would have led to a lot less people sticking around. thats just my thoughts on it
Some links definitely could be cleaned up, i agree with that
as for the secret rules in the last paragraph, im kind of confused as to what you mean by that?
Thank you very much for your input! sorry for the long response, Im just reading this and trying to think about the viability of addressing some of your concerns. In the end i know lots of people have concerns, just coming up with things that actually fix them without causing other problems is the biggest issue
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - SchwarzNarr - 06-12-2020
(06-12-2020, 01:04 PM)ADwyer87 Wrote:The tabs argument confuses me a bit. 3 tabs seems like very little? I have more than 3 tabs open very often haha. maybe im in the minority there.
My big concern is I started with 3 tabs, and then began to get into a situation where I had so many league tabs and different forum posts, I couldn't tell the difference between them (being new, and so much of the content felt similar) and I went from having only a few open to opening 4 new tabs just to understand how to add TPE.
(06-12-2020, 01:04 PM)ADwyer87 Wrote:But that one massive post would be HUGE, explaining sim leagues in its entirety is a substantial task.
Again > It could very well just be that I'm new to sim leagues in their entirety, but the "Rookie Guide" already feels massive, and having to go to external links for more rookie information was my frustration.
These are my personal frustrations. Not everyone will feel the same way, and nor should they. There are definitely pieces which were probably user error combined with doing it late at night. There are also some pieces where I still feel frustrated by the organization (Like, why isn't there a pinned post in the transactions forum with what the equipment prices and TPE are? It seems like knowing what you can purchase makes sense as a transaction. Maybe it's just me).
I just wanted to see if others, especially those who are still new, or when they were new, felt the same. Even if the system isn't perfect, it's nice to recognize and feel that you aren't alone. At the end of the day this is a league with a large number of personalities and learning styles. What fits for me most definitely won't fit for everyone, but I think the league working to understand what are common frustrations and struggles may allow them to put the information out there in a variety of ways.
*I'm New and Here Were My Frustrations Joining - ADwyer87 - 06-12-2020
(06-12-2020, 12:35 PM)SchwarzNarr Wrote:My big concern is I started with 3 tabs, and then began to get into a situation where I had so many league tabs and different forum posts, I couldn't tell the difference between them (being new, and so much of the content felt similar) and I went from having only a few open to opening 4 new tabs just to understand how to add TPE.nah i understand, i'm not discounting your experiences, just more or less explaining why some of it is the way that it is. I agree things could be better, just with some things i dont think we have the means to achieve that.
Again > It could very well just be that I'm new to sim leagues in their entirety, but the "Rookie Guide" already feels massive, and having to go to external links for more rookie information was my frustration.
These are my personal frustrations. Not everyone will feel the same way, and nor should they. There are definitely pieces which were probably user error combined with doing it late at night. There are also some pieces where I still feel frustrated by the organization (Like, why isn't there a pinned post in the transactions forum with what the equipment prices and TPE are? It seems like knowing what you can purchase makes sense as a transaction. Maybe it's just me).
I just wanted to see if others, especially those who are still new, or when they were new, felt the same. Even if the system isn't perfect, it's nice to recognize and feel that you aren't alone. At the end of the day this is a league with a large number of personalities and learning styles. What fits for me most definitely won't fit for everyone, but I think the league working to understand what are common frustrations and struggles may allow them to put the information out there in a variety of ways.
The rookie guide is pretty big, my thought is just that if we removed the external links it would only make it bigger. I know i have a generally small attention span but big blocky posts automatically turn me off from reading. I'm also more of a step/checklist kind of guy, separating things into sections helps my brain from overloading haha. I think that could be the reasoning for having external links.
as for available purchases, we do have one of those in the bank section!
http://nsfl.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=21755
its not in transactions but it is just one step away
I thinkthe league in general is aware of a lot of the issues and are trying to work on them. But thanks for your input!