S9 Archetype Changes - Printable Version

S9 Archetype Changes - Printable Version

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S9 Archetype Changes - majesiu - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 05:07 PM)timeconsumer Wrote:Basically the idea is to reduce the gap between CB and S and between WR and TE by bringing one down and the other up. Some archetypes were obviously too high in caps for stats like man-to-man corner which had the highest useful TPE space of all archetypes and positions. Others were really hamstrung like run support safety and red zone WR.

Yup nerf to CB that earns almost all possible TPE in 3 seasons and gets full 1 Interception in his whole 32 career games is definitely needed.

At least change milestones to reflect CBs sucking - in seasons S7 and S8, I earned respectively 2 and 1 TPE from them.

Can I get at least free position change or archetype change after this drastic nerf that squanders any chance of me being an interception threat or even being a decent defensive player?

S9 Archetype Changes - timeconsumer - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 01:13 PM)Bzerkap Wrote:We've had to edit a lot over the years.

Thanks @timeconsumer for your testing

Yup.

Fun fact: these changes will have almost no noticeable benefit in the sim for most archetypes unless you're one of the ones that got a speed buff. The fact of the matter is that I mostly modified what I call the "dump stats" like agility or intelligence. For some positions these matter, for some they don't.

Man-to-man corner bothered me a ton because it had the highest amount of room to spend TPE of all positions and archetypes in the league, and by a good margin compared to other dback archetypes. And why should there be no 100 speed safety? Made no sense. So the idea was to increase speed to minimum 95 for most dbacks, give another 100 speed option at S, and tweak intelligence and hands which help with INTs. Man-to-man keeps 100 agility to be the best at kick returns. I also wanted to reduce man-to-man corner's hands so they don't make as great of a WR.

Then when it comes to WR and TE a lot of adjustment was to the "dump stats" of agility and intelligence. These really have very very small benefits compared to the bigger stats. I needed a way, like man-to-man corner to reduce the max TPE that could fit into a build for several WR positions and increase it for TE. So I reduced the dump stats for WRs and I made all TEs get more strength. A lot of teams play WRs at TE, and that sucks. So let's make TEs better blockers with more strength and make teams want to carry an actual TE and not just stick a 4th WR in there (and yes, part of the reason why teams do that is the lack of TEs to draft).

S9 Archetype Changes - timeconsumer - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 01:14 PM)majesiu Wrote:Yup nerf to CB that earns almost all possible TPE in 3 seasons and gets full 1 Interception in his whole 32 career games is definitely needed.

At least change milestones to reflect CBs sucking - in seasons S7 and S8, I earned respectively 2 and 1 TPE from them.

Can I get at least free position change or archetype change after this drastic nerf that squanders any chance of me being an interception threat or even being a decent defensive player?

See above, in actual performance as a corner you will notice almost no difference. While hands and Int help with INTs, the biggest factor with that is the experience stat and where you play on defense (you played a lot of SS and NC with us) and in what scheme.

Also remember how our sim actually functions with CBs. Your speed is huge because you need to make tackles. You are going to miss a receiver and chase him down for 40 yards, we can't fix that. A faster CB will stop him sooner and prevent a TD. It doesn't show in your stats but that's the game we have.

Corner is not a flashy position here. It's a team-player position. Unfortunately this sim is flawed and doesn't jive well with our purposes and how it is used. We've done a lot to improve it with modifying experience but it will never be perfect and correlate performance with TPE exactly.

S9 Archetype Changes - iamslm22 - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 12:13 PM)Bzerkap Wrote:We've had to edit a lot over the years.

Thanks @timeconsumer for your testing

I just wanna co-sign this thanks. TC you've been a fucking great asset to the league.

S9 Archetype Changes - HalfEatenOnionBagel - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 12:14 PM)majesiu Wrote:Yup nerf to CB that earns almost all possible TPE in 3 seasons and gets full 1 Interception in his whole 32 career games is definitely needed.

At least change milestones to reflect CBs sucking - in seasons S7 and S8, I earned respectively 2 and 1 TPE from them.

Can I get at least free position change or archetype change after this drastic nerf that squanders any chance of me being an interception threat or even being a decent defensive player?

In addition to what TC said, if you look at the interception numbers in the index, it actually lines up with how interception leaders in the NFL look year to year. Even some of the most highly regarded corners in the league have seasons where they only get a few interceptions. Plus, corner builds take a while to build up here and you're playing against a ton of WR that are maxed out from S1-3

I do agree though that maybe the milestones could be looked at a little more closely, and not just for the CB position. But I also don't think they're the best indication of how good a player is in the sim

S9 Archetype Changes - Bzerkap - 07-05-2018

@majesiu just be grateful you aren't an RB where it really doesn't matter

S9 Archetype Changes - majesiu - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 06:27 PM)timeconsumer Wrote:See above, in actual performance as a corner you will notice almost no difference. While hands and Int help with INTs, the biggest factor with that is the experience stat and where you play on defense (you played a lot of SS and NC with us) and in what scheme.

Also remember how our sim actually functions with CBs. Your speed is huge because you need to make tackles. You are going to miss a receiver and chase him down for 40 yards, we can't fix that. A faster CB will stop him sooner and prevent a TD. It doesn't show in your stats but that's the game we have.

Corner is not a flashy position here. It's a team-player position. Unfortunately this sim is flawed and doesn't jive well with our purposes and how it is used. We've done a lot to improve it with modifying experience but it will never be perfect and correlate performance with TPE exactly.

I'm already almost at the full experience with 450+ TPE, just two more break points at 600/750. With these changes, I'm almost capped at Intelligence and over the cap on hands (do I need to pay for redistribution, lose it or what)?

I appreciate the effort since I know too how hard balancing might be and thanks for explaining things (though other players were quite successful in same schemes/teams), but there are other things too that makes this hard to swallow:

QBs are far better then they were at the start of the league, breaking out as a defensive back to become Hall of Fame or even get a pro-bowl game appearance is difficult enough without reducing their manoeuvrability. Top corners in the past were far better and got more gaudy stats, why nerf them now?
These changes are even more PITA since I left those stats a bit under the cap to avoid paying for redistribution while still getting TPE from equipment, now to even keep up the earning tempo I need to pay an additional price to spend it somewhere else and avoid double-dipping lose on this nerf.
Being team position is one and I was okay with that but reducing my usefulness after already being one of the most ungrateful positions, that you said didn't correlate well with TPE, that doesn't seem to hold together as a logical consequence.

S9 Archetype Changes - majesiu - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 06:34 PM)Bzerkap Wrote:@majesiu just be grateful you aren't an RB where it really doesn't matter

Yay, classic "you suck but I suck even more so shut up"

S9 Archetype Changes - majesiu - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 06:34 PM)HalfEatenOnionBagel Wrote:In addition to what TC said, if you look at the interception numbers in the index, it actually lines up with how interception leaders in the NFL look year to year. Even some of the most highly regarded corners in the league have seasons where they only get a few interceptions. Plus, corner builds take a while to build up here and you're playing against a ton of WR that are maxed out from S1-3

I do agree though that maybe the milestones could be looked at a little more closely, and not just for the CB position. But I also don't think they're the best indication of how good a player is in the sim

Now we compare to NFL, when it's convenient, but when I there is lack of TPE correlation it's sim fault - just look at some other corners in the past:

[Image: mlCnZUG.png]

S9 Archetype Changes - HalfEatenOnionBagel - 07-05-2018

(07-05-2018, 12:52 PM)majesiu Wrote:Now we compare to NFL, when it's convenient, but when I there is lack of TPE correlation it's sim fault - just look at some other corners in the past:

I was mainly just trying to highlight that interceptions are kind of as random here as they are in real life. Sometimes the "best" players get a ton of interceptions in a season and sometimes they only get like 2 and that's the same thing you're seeing here for quite a few of the better CB in the NSFL. Xavier Rhodes only had 2 interceptions in his first 39 career games and only has 9 in his first 5 seasons and a lot of people think he's a top 5 corner in the NFL.

I think the impact you're having for your team is a lot more that just getting interceptions. Not to mention the guys you are comparing to have played through seasons in the league that were a lot different just because of various buffs and nerfs and rule changes that have passed over the seasons. Not to mention they have grown with the league rather than starting in an already established league with a lot of superstar WR.

If you want the stats, that's one thing. But again look at CBs in the NFL and you'll see they don't get a ton of stats and why would they? But if that's not what you care about and you really want to make an impact I'd stick with CB because a lot of the best CB in the league are hitting regression and it will only continue to be a need.