(03-22-2021, 11:53 AM)tMuse Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:41 AM)iStegosauruz Wrote: In any of these seasons we are not using our full slate of rule proposals. If the community at large has changes they'd like to see in the rulebook approach your GM, any relevant department head, or any member of Head Office. We have MORE than enough space. 
That is not a vindication or opinion on the union or providing some level of vote to the general member base. Its an acknowledgement that the union/member base voting ideas came on the heels of a six (and maybe more) season low in rule proposals. I respect and understand that the general member base of the league does not possess direct votes but there are still ways to influence proceedings in rules summits, and one major indicator (not the only, but one we can look at) of that is rule quantity.

The Union currently relies, mostly, on leaks of the proposed rules. We, otherwise, have no idea what is and whas is not proposed. This makes it super hard for us to propose rules.
Also the plan of the union is for the players to have a say in rules that affect US players.

It's just super sad to see that we players shouldn't have a say in whats happening in the league. The only times we can move anything as players is if we start a giant shitstorm (see Trivia / Predictions some seasons ago).

Giving the playerbase a unified voice would make a lot of things clearer and easier.

(03-22-2021, 11:54 AM)Sermokala Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:49 AM)SDCore Wrote: Hahaha can't hold me back. Also so many salty bitches can't take a joke eh?

Yeah see this is exactly the attitude we see with this. we hear stories and stories about how toxic and hateful management chat gets and yet the best "joke" we get from management chat is about how we're all salty bitches because we're not apart of the "cool kids" who hate being apart of the in group and bitch to us about it.

(03-22-2021, 12:00 PM)Sermokala Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:58 AM)SDCore Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:54 AM)Sermokala Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:49 AM)SDCore Wrote: Hahaha can't hold me back. Also so many salty bitches can't take a joke eh?

Yeah see this is exactly the attitude we see with this. we hear stories and stories about how toxic and hateful management chat gets and yet the best "joke" we get from management chat is about how we're all salty bitches because we're not apart of the "cool kids" who hate being apart of the in group and bitch to us about it.

I'm not in management...

I'm sorry I just assumed you being in HO that you were somehow involved in the management of the league.

(03-22-2021, 12:00 PM)iStegosauruz Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:53 AM)tMuse Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:41 AM)iStegosauruz Wrote: In any of these seasons we are not using our full slate of rule proposals. If the community at large has changes they'd like to see in the rulebook approach your GM, any relevant department head, or any member of Head Office. We have MORE than enough space. 
That is not a vindication or opinion on the union or providing some level of vote to the general member base. Its an acknowledgement that the union/member base voting ideas came on the heels of a six (and maybe more) season low in rule proposals. I respect and understand that the general member base of the league does not possess direct votes but there are still ways to influence proceedings in rules summits, and one major indicator (not the only, but one we can look at) of that is rule quantity.

The Union currently relies, mostly, on leaks of the proposed rules. We, otherwise, have no idea what is and whas is not proposed. This makes it super hard for us to propose rules.
Also the plan of the union is for the players to have a say in rules that affect US players.

It's just super sad to see that we players shouldn't have a say in whats happening in the league. The only times we can move anything as players is if we start a giant shitstorm (see Trivia / Predictions some seasons ago).

Giving the playerbase a unified voice would make a lot of things clearer and easier.

This was something that was brought up during discussion amongst the GMs. Next season proposals will be published in advance of voting to the entire playerbase so everyone has the ability to discuss them and bring concerns to relevant individuals.

That being said, not knowing what is or isn't proposed shouldn't be an impediment to proposing rules. Anyone here can absolutely DM me at any time and ask about certain things and I'll be more than happy to help anyone with getting something on the ballot - whether it be using the slots I get to propose rules or in informing them that a similar proposal is already in the works. No one does this.

(03-22-2021, 12:02 PM)SDCore Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 12:00 PM)Sermokala Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:58 AM)SDCore Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:54 AM)Sermokala Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:49 AM)SDCore Wrote: Hahaha can't hold me back. Also so many salty bitches can't take a joke eh?

Yeah see this is exactly the attitude we see with this. we hear stories and stories about how toxic and hateful management chat gets and yet the best "joke" we get from management chat is about how we're all salty bitches because we're not apart of the "cool kids" who hate being apart of the in group and bitch to us about it.

I'm not in management...

I'm sorry I just assumed you being in HO that you were somehow involved in the management of the league.

I'm not in HO

(03-22-2021, 12:02 PM)SDCore Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 12:00 PM)Sermokala Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:58 AM)SDCore Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:54 AM)Sermokala Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:49 AM)SDCore Wrote: Hahaha can't hold me back. Also so many salty bitches can't take a joke eh?

Yeah see this is exactly the attitude we see with this. we hear stories and stories about how toxic and hateful management chat gets and yet the best "joke" we get from management chat is about how we're all salty bitches because we're not apart of the "cool kids" who hate being apart of the in group and bitch to us about it.

I'm not in management...

I'm sorry I just assumed you being in HO that you were somehow involved in the management of the league.

I'm not in HO

(03-22-2021, 11:19 AM)infinitempg Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:12 AM)Maglubiyet Wrote:

Quote:6. SD must remain in ISFL HO. Forever.

We should question whether the users that proposed and voted for this rule should continue to be eligible for voting in the future. An overwhelming majority of the userbase does not have a direct vote in league matters, and seeing a proposal like this along with 9 joke votes to add it to the rulebook does not inspire much confidence that a large minority of the voting base takes their role seriously. Fortunately we have been given an offseason task that addresses this exact topic, so thank you to HO for giving us this type of platform for feedback. If you proposed or voted for this rule and simultaneously believe that a players' union type body is a farce, your position is untenable. Please reconsider using your exclusive ability to propose rules on a joke and instead solicit feedback for a proposal from other users as has been done previously.

Ok this was added as a joke on a whim because GM chat was having some fun. Didn’t expect it to make it to the official post but it gave me a chuckle. Half the GMs didn’t even know it was a joke by GM chat because they weren’t online.

So to be particularly clear - no one proposed this to be in the rule book and the people voting yes were part of the joke, there wasn’t even a no option for a while anyways, and we should all relax a bit

---

(03-22-2021, 11:41 AM)iStegosauruz Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:12 AM)Maglubiyet Wrote:

Quote:6. SD must remain in ISFL HO. Forever.

We should question whether the users that proposed and voted for this rule should continue to be eligible for voting in the future. An overwhelming majority of the userbase does not have a direct vote in league matters, and seeing a proposal like this along with 9 joke votes to add it to the rulebook does not inspire much confidence that a large minority of the voting base takes their role seriously. Fortunately we have been given an offseason task that addresses this exact topic, so thank you to HO for giving us this type of platform for feedback. If you proposed or voted for this rule and simultaneously believe that a players' union type body is a farce, your position is untenable. Please reconsider using your exclusive ability to propose rules on a joke and instead solicit feedback for a proposal from other users as has been done previously.

Couple of things: 

First, excluding that proposal we had 15 rule proposals.
In Season 27 we had 10.
In Season 26 we had 17.
In Season 25 we had 21.
In Season 24 we had 19. 
In Season 23 we had we had 11. 

In any of these seasons we are not using our full slate of rule proposals. If the community at large has changes they'd like to see in the rulebook approach your GM, any relevant department head, or any member of Head Office. We have MORE than enough space. 
That is not a vindication or opinion on the union or providing some level of vote to the general member base. Its an acknowledgement that the union/member base voting ideas came on the heels of a six (and maybe more) season low in rule proposals. I respect and understand that the general member base of the league does not possess direct votes but there are still ways to influence proceedings in rules summits, and one major indicator (not the only, but one we can look at) of that is rule quantity. 

Second, we passed an incredible number of rules this offseason that have huge impact on the league at large. If anyone here would like to zero-in on one proposal for the fun of GMs and HO and completely ignore the substantive changes that the league just passed, thats their choice. I urge league members to look at the fact we just codified sets of punishments almost unanimously, refocused one of the more controversial and confusing awards, clarified regression, codified some expansion procedures, passed multiple rules to address issues with ISFL/DSFL position switching, and voted to give the league more money for quality graphics. These are changes in multiple different areas of the league that are good for the league.

Allowing General Managers and Head Office to have fun with a fellow member of that group during the busiest time of the season for us - two drafts, regression, the Ultimus, the Ultimini, Rules Summits, Off-Season Prep, etc. - should not be used as a blackmark against anyone and isn't an indication that individuals don't take their jobs seriously. Head Office is constantly told we're too formal and don't look like relatable humans to the rest of the league. When we make decisions that showcase that fact we're criticized for doing it. The league doesn't get it both ways.

(03-22-2021, 12:05 PM)tMuse Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 12:00 PM)iStegosauruz Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:53 AM)tMuse Wrote:

(03-22-2021, 11:41 AM)iStegosauruz Wrote: In any of these seasons we are not using our full slate of rule proposals. If the community at large has changes they'd like to see in the rulebook approach your GM, any relevant department head, or any member of Head Office. We have MORE than enough space. 
That is not a vindication or opinion on the union or providing some level of vote to the general member base. Its an acknowledgement that the union/member base voting ideas came on the heels of a six (and maybe more) season low in rule proposals. I respect and understand that the general member base of the league does not possess direct votes but there are still ways to influence proceedings in rules summits, and one major indicator (not the only, but one we can look at) of that is rule quantity.

The Union currently relies, mostly, on leaks of the proposed rules. We, otherwise, have no idea what is and whas is not proposed. This makes it super hard for us to propose rules.
Also the plan of the union is for the players to have a say in rules that affect US players.

It's just super sad to see that we players shouldn't have a say in whats happening in the league. The only times we can move anything as players is if we start a giant shitstorm (see Trivia / Predictions some seasons ago).

Giving the playerbase a unified voice would make a lot of things clearer and easier.

This was something that was brought up during discussion amongst the GMs. Next season proposals will be published in advance of voting to the entire playerbase so everyone has the ability to discuss them and bring concerns to relevant individuals.

That being said, not knowing what is or isn't proposed shouldn't be an impediment to proposing rules. Anyone here can absolutely DM me at any time and ask about certain things and I'll be more than happy to help anyone with getting something on the ballot - whether it be using the slots I get to propose rules or in informing them that a similar proposal is already in the works. No one does this.

I bet no one does this because no one knows that this is a thing. For me this is totally new.
I still think that showing the proposals "before the voting occurs so the players can raise concerns is a more complicated step instead of just giving them a unified voice.