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+--- Thread: An Obvious Confession and an Apology (/showthread.php?tid=33792)
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - Raven - 07-17-2021
(07-17-2021, 04:23 AM)Oles Wrote:(07-17-2021, 04:19 AM)Raven Wrote:WOOOOOO what do we win now(07-17-2021, 04:13 AM)Jimi64 Wrote:(07-17-2021, 04:00 AM)Raven Wrote:and @Raven and @Oles(07-17-2021, 02:47 AM)Jimi64 Wrote: @124715 and @infinitempg , can you explain to me why you kept Jiggly's identity a secret? I don't know the others that well but I hold y'all to a bit of a higher esteem.
If people were unsure about the legality of this, couldn't it have been cleared with HO in like a day? Why did y'all keep this hidden for an entire season?
It's frankly infuriating to think both of you had a part in this scheme and let it go on.
Sheeeesh not even gonna mention me eh
Don’t really know y’all sorry to leave ya out
Thank you! I got us in it Oles!
Punishment for being an accomplice, you'll be spending the night in the slammer.
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - DatSmolBoi - 07-17-2021
Good luck in your future endeavors
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - Thor - 07-17-2021
fr?
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - Memento Mori - 07-17-2021
After you left the league, I brought up the topic of whether someone in a situation like yours should be allowed to come back in secret in OCO's war room. I felt like the treatment of you resembled bullying at times, and while obviously you were partly responsible for the situations that led to it, I felt bad that it was seemingly impossible for you to enjoy the league.
I liked the idea in principle of you being able to come back and enjoy the league, but it would require at the least: HO to know, and not to leak it, and to continue not to leak it after they left HO. There'd be further requirements, like having to not-do rookie tasks, and I could imagine an awkward situation where a helpful GM or teammate encourages you to do your rookie tasks and you have to avoid doing so.
We voted to explicitly disallow these accounts because where someone's reputation is entirely deserved, they'll abuse their second chance (see: Zamir), and the possibility of someone who doesn't 'need' to do this because people don't dislike them is just really uncomfortable. I'd hate to find out that a new person I was speaking to was actually someone I'd known for the last ~18 months and had been indirectly lying to me every time we spoke.
I still have sympathy for you. I still think it'd be nice if there was a world where you could enjoy the ISFL. But this mess makes me so glad we voted to disallow situations like this. At least four people conspired with you to deceive everyone and two teams got fucked.
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - infinitempg - 07-17-2021
(07-17-2021, 02:47 AM)Jimi64 Wrote:(07-17-2021, 02:42 AM)negs Wrote: So people knew and still let Philly and London draft knowing well the situation without disclosing to either GM pair? Cmon now
@124715 and @infinitempg , can you explain to me why you kept Jiggly's identity a secret? I don't know the others that well but I hold y'all to a bit of a higher esteem.
If people were unsure about the legality of this, couldn't it have been cleared with HO in like a day? Why did y'all keep this hidden for an entire season?
It's frankly infuriating to think both of you had a part in this scheme and let it go on.
Because (a) in my professional opinion it *was* legal and (b) I believe Jiggly deserved a fresh start. If HO wishes to punish me for protecting a user who quite frankly would never have been allowed to recreate peacefully under their old username, so be it.
I stand by this decision fully. I still don’t think YTB should have been punished either. As far as I’m concerned in the interpretation of the old rules (prior to this past rules summit) essentially deactivating your old account and starting new was legal. The definition of multi required active accounts and to some extent, active players on both accounts. And so, I advised Jiggly that it was in fact legal, and to not do anything stupid.
Jiggly was my first GM. While we certainly have been on opposite sides of many league issues, they are at least one user who does not deserve the amount of ridicule they get. And that’s why I did what I did.
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - infinitempg - 07-17-2021
(07-17-2021, 03:35 AM)Jimi64 Wrote: Don't even have a problem with Jiggly here, actually quite sympathetic to the situation and understand why a fresh start was desired.
But you can't deny some well respected users helped conspire to keep a multi account user secret when not being sure if it was legal for a whole season. Don't think that's kinda messed up? These people were in war rooms at the time of the draft, and it would take a lot of convincing to make me think that knowledge of jggly's second account wasn't used.
Also, and you can ask Frick and Hall this, I did NOT tell Baltimore about this. I told NO ONE. Since we're going after some teams having an advantage and all.
I can't speak for the others, but that's my final statement on this. Come by to my DMs to yell at me if you want.
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - ValorX77 - 07-17-2021
It’s been a truly rough few weeks..
All these multis..
What has this league I once loved gone to,
Welcome to the beginning of the end.
(PS Jiggly, if you wish to discuss this, my discord DM’s are open)
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - Air Crou - 07-17-2021
How many punches to the gut can a man take before saying fuck this and ditching this shithole? Good riddance!
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - AdamS - 07-17-2021
(07-17-2021, 03:35 AM)Jimi64 Wrote:No one's trying to deny that multiple respected users were involved as far as I can see. Generally when one points an Ace Attorney style figure to demand that someone admit something is true, there should be some leadup to that being in question first. Rather than everyone already agreeing to it ahead of time.(07-17-2021, 03:13 AM)AdamS Wrote: And I'm sorry that now there are people reacts g negatively towards others because they kept you a secret. "Oh no I liked Jiggly. Eww gross."
Don't even have a problem with Jiggly here, actually quite sympathetic to the situation and understand why a fresh start was desired.
But you can't deny some well respected users helped conspire to keep a multi account user secret when not being sure if it was legal for a whole season. Don't think that's kinda messed up? These people were in war rooms at the time of the draft, and it would take a lot of convincing to make me think that knowledge of jggly's second account wasn't used.
Now, as generally agreed by everyone, several high profile users including 3 former members of HO were approached and asked about it and all seem to have come to the conclusion that it was in good faith and not actually against the rules as they existed. I know you framed it as "not sure if legal" and all that conspiratorial negative busoness but there's usually a term for things that aren't in the rulebook. It's legal. And if it wasn't, there wouldn't be not own but two new rules making it illegal.
Is it messed up? I don't think so. I can think of some other things in the very recent past that were totally messed up though.
I wouldn't expect the league's Rita Skeeter to see the issue with stirring the pot yet again so quickly though.
Someone wanted something positive and others helped. Others who's judgement is well regarded. If you view that as a negative it's because you brought that negativity with you. Now you may go. I'm sure you have a "what entirely negative opinions about every member of HO" article to work on.
RE: An Obvious Confession and an Apology - nunccoepi - 07-17-2021
In my personal opinion, I think these advisers are taking more heat than they deserve.
Even apart from whatever nitpicky way of defining “active” you want (in this context HO has continually used “overlapping log in times” but this hasn’t been clearly communicated which is another reason this rule has needed changing), it was legal for Jiggly to create a second account. What was clearly illegal was claiming the rookie tasks. And afaik these advisers didn’t comment on those. So it’s weird that they’re getting this shade when the only thing jiggly did wrong was something they had nothing to do with.
Unless they advisers did happen to mention the rookie tasks in which case, idk. It’s pretty clear in there.
Either way, these advisers had no duty to say anything to anyone in HO about it.