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+---- Thread: S25 Expansion (/showthread.php?tid=25196)
RE: S25 Expansion - Colabear - 08-27-2020
Just been thinking about something that's a bit of a tangent so I'll keep separate.
I think some of the criticism levelled at HO, is that we're quite conservative in our decisions and we don't make bolder choices. I think that's a pretty fair and accurate criticism. But it's also a consequence of the scrutiny that every decision comes under. As someone in HO it feels like you need to try and be able to defend every decision you make - which is fine - but it's not a mindset or environment which will encourage bold choices. It's not an environment that you feel like you can take chances and make mistakes.
This relationship between scrutiny/criticism and taking risks is something I've seen a lot professionally and I don't think sim leagues are much different in that respect.
RE: S25 Expansion - Colabear - 08-27-2020
(08-27-2020, 05:19 AM)Frostbite Wrote:Quote:I viewed ISFL GMing experience as a positive in a bid (I do find it a bit weird people view this as a negative)
I think the main issue people had with this wasn't that they had ISFL GM experience, it was that they were current ISFL GMs. Its one thing to get promoted from DSFL -> ISFL, or make a return to GMing after seasons of absence, but to go from one team to another in the same league is vastly different than either of those.
At least thats my take on it
I get that. Without wanting to reiterate my previous post too much, not everyone who get to GM necessarily gets the chance to shape and really own their team, especially in mature teams.
It's also very specific lens to look at the bids through - to simply put applicants into a bucket of ISFL GM or not. I get that it's a very easy to define objective measure but it ignores the varied skills, personality and characteristics that all the applicants bring to the table which in my view are overall more important. There were also ISFL GMs who didn't make our shortlist, so it wasn't this huge factor in peoples favour. The people who we chose were ultimately the people we thought would do the best job.
RE: S25 Expansion - TeyonSchavari - 08-27-2020
(08-27-2020, 05:24 AM)Colabear Wrote: Just been thinking about something that's a bit of a tangent so I'll keep separate.
I think some of the criticism levelled at HO, is that we're quite conservative in our decisions and we don't make bolder choices. I think that's a pretty fair and accurate criticism. But it's also a consequence of the scrutiny that every decision comes under. As someone in HO it feels like you need to try and be able to defend every decision you make - which is fine - but it's not a mindset or environment which will encourage bold choices. It's not an environment that you feel like you can take chances and make mistakes.
This relationship between scrutiny/criticism and taking risks is something I've seen a lot professionally and I don't think sim leagues are much different in that respect.
*Vietnam-War-PTSD-dog.gif*
Sure, I think it'd be fun to pick fresh faces to lead a brand new team, but I'd be concerned of the unknowns if I were still HO as well. Think about it the other way around. If HO announced that two relatively new guys with little to no experience got the job, we'd have just as much criticism from those of the opposite viewpoint yelling at HO about how they're idiots for not choosing someone with more experience.
I'm sure many other candidates would have done fantastic jobs as expansion GMs, new or experienced. I'm also extremely confident in Woelker, Bwesty, Dewalt, and High to be awesome GMs and leaders of the new teams. Congrats to the new GMs, and best of luck to all that applied in future endeavors!
RE: S25 Expansion - Opera_Phantom - 08-27-2020
Just to clarify, i don't think anyone here said that any of the 4 selected were bad choices. Because they're definitely not.
But if we get to another expansion, maybe prioritize applications with 1 experienced user and 1 not so experienced one.
RE: S25 Expansion - retrospace111 - 08-27-2020
feels like people are just arguing for the sake of arguing, and i never thought i'd say this, but i think i'm on HO's side here. what did people think was going to happen? they were going to pick green boys to build a franchise from the ground up?
RE: S25 Expansion - manicmav36 - 08-27-2020
(08-26-2020, 04:35 PM)Kyamprac Wrote: I don't normally like to write posts that put a bit of a damper on things... but let me get this straight. You picked someone who is already currently the GM of an ISFL team and someone who was very recently the GM of another ISFL team to GM new expansion teams instead of giving it to literally anyone else who puts time into the league who hasnt had that opportunity yet? Nothing personal to the selections (I'm sure they'll be awesome and I really do look forward to seeing the branding) but I kind of expected better from a league that talks about player/community growth.
Giving an expansion GM spot to "literally anyone else" is exactly how you end up with a failed franchise. Ever heard of our fabled franchise, the Las Vegas Legion? Getting an expansion wrong absolutely cripples a team for a long time, and some never recover. That's awful for the league.
Going with a known commodity, who has experience as a GM gives them an exponentially higher chance of succeeding. To say that's the wrong call is just short-sighted and ignoring league history.
RE: S25 Expansion - TubbyTim69 - 08-27-2020
Are we able to see what their bids looked like? Going tinto this bidding process me and eph had no way to know what was to go into the bid. Eph made a nice to the point document as to why we should be chosen but then until the announcement yesterday heard nothing. We kind of presumed there would be a little interview process where we would share our plans for the team (ie expansion draft plans, draft plans, how we're going to handle other things). We had all this planned up but we had no idea what this whole process was like. Knowing we finished 4th in Voting hurts a little more knowing that if we knew we had to add that type of information into the bid it could've bumped us up to the top 2. I'd just like to see what a winning bid looks like for future reference and I think it would also help other people when expansion comes around again. This was the first time I was on this end of expansion and really had no idea what had to go into a bid.
RE: S25 Expansion - Billybolo53 - 08-27-2020
Ho picked some great people. Dewalt and Woeklers are some of my favorite people since I've joined the league. No doubt in their abilities at all. I am a little disappointed that with all the excitement around expansion, that HO played so safe. It would of been cool to take a chance on some fresh blood. Like last expansion have one tenured pair and a relatively new, but qualified pair. I'm sure people would have changed their approach if they knew Gm Exp was so important. @Tylus and @DarknessRising would have been a very interesting pick, that hope gets an opportunity down the line.
Congrats to those chosen, excited to see the branding.
Good job by Ho been transparent. i love that you guys are actively engaging in this thread. Your guy's reasoning is completely understandable and necessary to ensure long term success, albeit a bit boring.
Hopefully those not chosen are not discouraged. There will def be more opportunities down the line with how fast the league is growing.
RE: S25 Expansion - IsaStarcrossed - 08-27-2020
(08-27-2020, 11:35 AM)Billybolo53 Wrote: Good job by Ho been transparent. i love that you guys are actively engaging in this thread. Your guy's reasoning is completely understandable and necessary to ensure long term success, albeit a bit boring.
I do want to second this. I do appreciate HO coming in and attempting to explain why they made the decision they made. Everyone may not agree with the opinions or the process, but at least HO is trying to help people understand why it was done the way it was. Its hard for HO when people ask for more transparency on decisions and then when they try to be open and honest about why they voted the way they did, people get angry because they disagree with the transparency. Lmao. So I for one appreciate you guys for trying.
RE: S25 Expansion - Bigred1580 - 08-27-2020
(08-27-2020, 08:47 AM)retrospace111 Wrote: feels like people are just arguing for the sake of arguing, and i never thought i'd say this, but i think i'm on HO's side here. what did people think was going to happen? they were going to pick green boys to build a franchise from the ground up?
Geez Zamir, quit being such an HO homer, smh...