![[DEV] ISFL Forums](http://dev.sim-football.com/forums/images/emerald/logo.png "[DEV] ISFL Forums"){kind=logo}
+- [DEV] ISFL Forums (http://dev.sim-football.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Community (http://dev.sim-football.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Discussion (http://dev.sim-football.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=33)
+---- Forum: Suggestion Box (http://dev.sim-football.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=34)
+----- Forum: Archived Suggestions (http://dev.sim-football.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=349)
+----- Thread: Do Something About Offensive Line (/showthread.php?tid=5346)
Do Something About Offensive Line - 7hawk77 - 10-19-2017
(10-19-2017, 10:15 AM)iamslm22 Wrote:And I have yet to see one Lineman say they would be upset. Every one has supported this, even a guy like Pest says he enjoys playing the position but would gladly switch.
I feel like we would need every single active OL to weigh in to find out the exact numbers who support this.
From my understanding, there are at least two OL that are enjoying their time playing the position and I don't think it would be ideal to force them to switch.
Do Something About Offensive Line - iamslm22 - 10-19-2017
(10-19-2017, 12:02 PM)7hawk77 Wrote:I feel like we would need every single active OL to weigh in to find out the exact numbers who support this.
From my understanding, there are at least two OL that are enjoying their time playing the position and I don't think it would be ideal to force them to switch.
Then HO should PM them and see. No one in the public forum that is an OL has disagreed.
Do Something About Offensive Line - timeconsumer - 10-19-2017
(10-19-2017, 01:02 PM)7hawk77 Wrote:I feel like we would need every single active OL to weigh in to find out the exact numbers who support this.
From my understanding, there are at least two OL that are enjoying their time playing the position and I don't think it would be ideal to force them to switch.
So let them stay. Make the bots have a TPE pool. If you start 4 OL bots they would be stronger than 5 OL bots so there is no downside to a team starting a player.
Do Something About Offensive Line - 7hawk77 - 10-19-2017
(10-19-2017, 11:26 AM)timeconsumer Wrote:So let them stay. Make the bots have a TPE pool. If you start 4 OL bots they would be stronger than 5 OL bots so there is no downside to a team starting a player.
But wouldn't that have a similar, albeit less effect than the current predicament?
Players would choose to be OL even though they don't find it fun, but it would increase their teams chances of winning.
Would players find it more fun if they also felt like they we're responsible for the stats that bots we're getting due to the shared TPE thing?
Would it be almost mandatory to get at least 1 or 2 active OL per team?
Do Something About Offensive Line - automatic - 10-19-2017
I don’t think anyone wants a league where every offensive line is all the same. I think if you do research on different sim leagues, you could implement a system where the team uses their salary to buy cheap/meh/good/awesome statistical bots in different categories.
Maybe you want a meh tackles for passblocking but good runblocking, and good drive stamina, and the reverse for the guards. Well that costs X per lineman, out of the team cap.
Existing lineman who wish to stay can be grandfathered in, just take whichever position they want and the team buys bots around them.
Do Something About Offensive Line - ErMurazor - 10-19-2017
(10-19-2017, 11:22 AM)7hawk77 Wrote:But wouldn't that have a similar, albeit less effect than the current predicament?
Players would choose to be OL even though they don't find it fun, but it would increase their teams chances of winning.
Would players find it more fun if they also felt like they we're responsible for the stats that bots we're getting due to the shared TPE thing?
Would it be almost mandatory to get at least 1 or 2 active OL per team?
At the very least it would allow people who played offensive line to feel like they were having a bigger impact. I know some have said that they don't feel like they make a difference, but if your player is counting for 2-3 on the field they would be.
Do Something About Offensive Line - ExemplaryChad - 10-19-2017
Posted this idea elsewhere, but I don't know how much overlap there is in audiences of the two topics.
Eliminate all OL positions except for LT. The rest are bots (ideally, customizable by GMs or something along those lines). This way, you take the need down from 40 (or 70 with DSFL) to 8 (or 14). There's a much better chance of finding 14 people who want to play OL than 40, and I don't think it would force an unreasonable number of players to play the position if they don't want to.
Do Something About Offensive Line - Admin - 10-19-2017
(10-19-2017, 11:33 AM)ExemplaryChad Wrote:Posted this idea elsewhere, but I don't know how much overlap there is in audiences of the two topics.The problem I could see here is then teams would never put their best DE against the LT. Jayce Tuck would be lining up vs the RT every single game regardless of opponent because it would be an easier matchup
Eliminate all OL positions except for LT. The rest are bots (ideally, customizable by GMs or something along those lines). This way, you take the need down from 40 (or 70 with DSFL) to 8 (or 14). There's a much better chance of finding 14 people who want to play OL than 40, and I don't think it would force an unreasonable number of players to play the position if they don't want to.
Do Something About Offensive Line - ExemplaryChad - 10-19-2017
(10-19-2017, 01:41 PM)Ballerstorm Wrote:The problem I could see here is then teams would never put their best DE against the LT. Jayce Tuck would be lining up vs the RT every single game regardless of opponent because it would be an easier matchup
Then maybe don't necessarily make it LT, but let it be flexible? Maybe just each team gets 1 OL PC. Should be easy enough to just make it a generic OL like it is now, but each GM can move him around as necessary during gameplanning/depth charts.
Am I totally off base on this, HO?
Do Something About Offensive Line - Beaver - 10-19-2017
I think that having GMs update offensive line bots would be too involved but I really like the idea of GMs customizing their offensive lines with a pool of TPE or drafting randomly generated linemen. That customization and team identity would add another little wrinkle into team management which would be interesting.
The issues I can see are:
1. How to keep the offensive line balanced with the rest of the league as average TPE increases season by season? This will take some testing to find the right balance but I would say start them off at x TPE where x is whatever testing shows provides the best balance to the league right now then increase the bot TPE pool by 6 (or however many bot linemen each team will keep) times 50-75% of total TPE available to active players. Monitor sack rates and average rushing yards per carry going forward to see if the linemen are keeping up with the league and adjust if necessary.
2. How frequent should the offensive line turnover be? Are we re-creating/drafting every lineman every offseason? Give each team 2 (or 3 or 1 or whatever) swaps per offseason? If offensive linemen bots get better every offseason to scale with the league this could get thorny.
3. How can we integrate people who want to and like playing offensive line into this new system? This is definitely the hardest part in my opinion. Semi-active linemen should be better than bots to give the human priority but having active/semi-active linemen shouldn't give a team a large advantage so that people don't feel obligated to take one for the team. This is why I think a system like "3000 TPE lineman pool, divide amongst however many linemen you don't have a human player for" wouldn't work since a human offensive lineman switching to another position would cause the line bot TPE and the overall TPE of the line to drop significantly. Perhaps something like "3000 TPE lineman pool with 75% of active human linemen TPE subtracted then divided amongst however many linemen you don't have a human player for."
So for example Team A has a 600 TPE active lineman and a 500 TPE active lineman while Team B has no active linemen and each team has to carry 6 linemen. Team A gets 2175 TPE to spread amongst 4 linemen (544 TPE average) while Team B gets the full 3000 for 6 (500 TPE average). Team A has a total offensive line TPE of 3275 because of their two actives while Team B has the standard 3000.
This scenario hinges on human linemen always being at or above average bot level. Otherwise we get scenarios like where a team with a 300 TPE active lineman (2775 TPE pool for 5 bots) builds a bot line of 4 615 TPE bots and a 315 bot for bench fodder. I don't think that kind of human-bot disparity would be good for the league. What happens when the league starts hitting max builds and the offensive line bots have been scaled to keep up? Do we keep bumping up the starting TPE of human linemen so that they basically start maxed? How do new creates in, say, season 15 catch up to 10 seasons of scaling bots that are up to 1800 TPE or whatever and teams get for free? Why would any team draft a lineman? This would be somewhat fixed by not subtracting any of the active linemen TPE from the pool but that goes back to giving current offensive linemen an obligation to stay even though they don't really want to. Perhaps a number somewhere between 0% and 75% of human TPE subtracted from the pool finds the right balance.
Another interesting thing about a system like that would be how much min-maxing we'd like to prevent. Say a team has 3000 TPE for 6 lineman and wants to create an 900 TPE left tackle, an 900 TPE left guard, an 900 TPE center, and 3 100 TPE bots as filler. Is that good for the league? Is it an interesting team identity or would it cause further imbalance?
Obviously most of the above ideas are half-baked at best but I think that type of system could work, even if it is a bit complicated, in conjunction with an overhaul of the OL template/update scale to keep them competitive. There's a very real danger here of causing more trouble than we solve if we're not careful, though.
As I was typing this there were some posts suggesting a cap on the number of customized bots (that is, forcing each team to carry 1 or 2 human linemen). I'm behind enough at work as it is so I can't go back and edit the above but I do think that's a great idea to alleviate some of the concerns I mentioned. I wouldn't make it position-specific (ie: force all human OLs to be LTs or Cs) so that people can keep a certain flavor to their lineman if they'd like but a minimum human player threshold could be a big help.