*What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team

*What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - Printable Version

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*What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - SchwarzNarr - 09-12-2020

We’ve all heard that there are connections between DSFL teams and ISFL teams, and that some ISFL teams draft more from certain DSFL teams than others. I went back to Season 8* (17 seasons total) to see if that was truly the case. Some things to note about this article and my research: Season 8 was due to the information being available on the Wiki starting them. It also encompasses almost all of the ISFL teams at that time - minus the Hahalua and Sailfish. Data was calculated as both raw numbers and percentages. I looked at average picks per draft by each team, and I also looked at both the San Antonio Marshals and Minnesota Grey Ducks separately, as well as a combined unit. The same holds true for the Palm Beach Solar Bears and the Myrtle Beach Buccaneers. I’m really bad at data analysis, so while I gave this the good ol’ college try, it’s very possible my interpretations of things are off. Feel free to correct me or elaborate if you have any extra information to make sense of this data:

One of the first stats that I wanted to discuss was the number of drafts (and therefore draft eligible players) each DSFL team had. Since Season 8, here are the drafts per team. (Note that Dallas Birddogs and London Royals were expansion teams for the DSFL in the S21 season)

Dallas Birddogs: 63
Kansas City Coyotes: 192
London Royals: 62
Minnesota Grey Ducks: 75
San Antonio Marshals: 117
Marshals and Grey Ducks: 192
Myrtle Beach Buccaneers: 84
Palm Beach Solar Bears: 45
Solar Bears & Buccaneers: 129
Norfolk Seawolves: 116
Portland Pythons: 196
Tijuana Luchadores: 213

*Norfolk was a bot team for several seasons (S8-S14, S17, S20)
*Solar Bears were also a bot team before being renamed Myrtle Beach (S8-S14, S17)
*Kansas City were a bot team for the S20 season

Taking into account the seasons of inactivity for teams, here are the average picks per draft for each DSFL team:

Dallas Birddogs: 15.8
Kansas City Coyotes: 12.0
London Royals: 15.5
Marshals and Grey Ducks: 11.3
Solar Bears & Buccaneers: 14.3
Norfolk Seawolves: 14.5
Portland Pythons: 11.5
Tijuana Luchadores 12.5

It is unclear why these “newer” franchises (specifically, Dallas, London, and I will also include Norfolk and Myrtle Beach due to their time as mostly bot teams) have had the largest number of players per ISFL draft but a couple of thoughts include:

More willing or able to pick up waiver creates as the season continues
GM and team culture which helps with player retention (although, I don’t believe this currently impacts draft eligibility)
Trading of draft picks to newer expansion teams to help provide a boost to their new franchises compared to existing and established teams
There weren’t as many users earlier in the league, so therefore older teams will have fewer picks per draft (This is by and large the most likely scenario)

Now, having spent time looking at the overall DSFL numbers, it became time to look at the ISFL drafts per team.

[Image: P5RtdOE.png]

Here is the overall percentage of picks.

Upon my first glance I had noticed that:

With the exception of the Marshal’s and Solar Bears not drafting from non-existant teams… There are only two instances where an ISFL team has never drafted from a DSFL. The Philadelphia Liberty have never drafted a Dallas Birddog, and the Austin Copperheads have never drafted a London Royal.
Adding to this, there has only been one Norfolk Seawolf drafted by the Austin Copperheads - settling in Norfolk at 0.9% drafted there.

When I went through to calculate the average percentage each team should have, taking into account the S22 expansion teams, it should sit roughly at 8% per team, previously it should have been 10%. Therefore, most teams should be sitting with 8-9% of their team heading into any one DSFL team if everything was completely even. Law of averages says there should be room for variation, I’m not a statistician to know exactly how much, but I’m gonna guess only a couple of percentage points.

Starting with the Dallas Birddogs: There is a clear gap between the teams which typically draft from Dallas and the teams which do not. Leading the pack are the Honolulu Hahalua - at 20.6% of Birddogs. Now when you look further - the expansion GM (Gucci) has direct ties to Dallas. I know that when I talk to my locker room, I completely love and want all of my Seapuppers to come with me, so I can imagine that when you are building a new team - knowing who you are already getting by having spent locker room time with them is 100% who I would draft also. Additionally - Bayley I believe has ties to Dallas - a former LB there, and after taking over for Chicago in S22 (the first draft that Birddogs would participate in) could also potentially have drafted numerous Birddogs for the pure reason of knowing them (and in a league where relationships and knowing the players well, over just pure TPE, it makes sense!)

The surprising one is the Sailfish coming in with 14.3% of Birddogs drafted. As far as I can tell, all Sailfish GMs have had more ties to Myrtle Beach over the Birddogs. Which goes to show that in this league it isn’t just who you know, but also those scouting conversations as well.

Sitting low on the draft percentage are the Baltimore Hawks at 3.2%, the New Orleans Second Line at 1.6% and the Philadelphia Liberty with 0%. Why these teams haven’t drafted Birddogs I’m not sure - but the biggest though would probably be they just don’t know the players and don’t have any connections to really make it easy to know the players that they are getting.

Next up we have the Kansas City Coyotes: While there are heavier trends that Coyotes go to the Outlaws, Sabercats, and Wraiths, there is no clear cut skew the way that there had been with the Birddogs. As far as I have been able to find, the Wraiths have no real connection to Kansas City (with the GMs not being former players), and therefore to have the highest percentage of Kansas City players entering into there is unique. I would mention other connections I know about Sabercats and Kansas City, but for recent seasons all I could believe is that Matty being the former GM of the Coyotes and also being a member of SJS would lead to a better understanding of KCC players and therefore drafting more of them.

Next are the London Royals: Being a newer team, the Royals have had less exposure to other teams overall, but they have still created some interesting trends when it comes to the breakdown of their numbers. The Royals felt like the team that is the most even throughout the board with where players go. Most of the numbers are sitting between 6 and 9% with a few extended in both directions. The Hahalua have only drafted 4.8% of Royal players, while on the other end of the spectrum the Baltimore Hawks have drafted 21% of Royals players. The biggest connection between Baltimore and the Royals would be Highhasschdi who was taken in the S22 draft (the first group of Royals). A player who quickly built a reputation and earned a coveted spot as a new Expansion GM, it seems clear that he would be considered a valuable asset within Baltimore. With his connections to the Royals, it makes sense to see a fifth of them head in the Baltimore direction. On the other hand, there has not been a single player from London who has made it to the Austin Copperheads.

The Minnesota Grey Ducks (and San Antonio Marshals) are up next: Separately, there has been a huge push in more recent memory for the Minnesota Greyducks to go to the Orange County Otters, as well as the San Jose Sabercats. Whereas, the Marshals primarily went to the Yeti, the Second Line, Liberty, and Outlaws. Combined, most players from the Grey Ducks still venture into the Yeti by the largest margin. This makes complete sense, Frick and Woelkers both have played for the Marshals and the Yeti for many seasons. In fact, Woelkers led the rebranding of the Minnesota Grey Ducks prior to becoming the GM of the Colorado Yeti. As we have discussed previously, be able to know players well makes it easier to want to draft them (and for those players to want to position swap when they know what they’re getting into, as well).

Myrtle Beach Buccaneers, formerly known as the Palm Beach Solar Pears are next on the docket: Independently, Myrtle Beach has primarily ventured to the Otters. Knowing that Scorycory was the Myrtle Beach GM for a while, and Jeffie is now a GM of OCO, there is a strong connection between these two teams. Again, we have noticed that the trend is to hire from within, and it continues to stay strong with these teams as well. Throwing back to the Solar Bears, we can see a huge push to the Liberty and the Butchers. I believe that Hallmonitor and Frostbite were two of the biggest actives when the Solar Bears came back (and potentially the ones in charge of the rebranding to Myrtle Beach), both of whom had strong ties to the Liberty (prior to Frost moving to the Sailfish - which could potentially account for the higher than 8% average that the Sailfish take from Myrtle Beach).

Norfolk Seawolves are on the docket now: Since they came back from obscurity (and robots), the Seawolves seem to have two tiers: Teams we go to a little more, and teams we go to a little less. Unlike most teams that have a massive standout - the Seawolves don’t seem to have any team particularly high. The biggest outlier here is the 0.9% of Seawolves heading to the Austin Copperheads. While it makes sense that if there aren’t Seawolves on the Copperheads it makes it hard to know the current players, it can still be surprising to see such a low number. The biggest draft locations for Seawolves includes the Outlaws, Second Line, and the Liberty. With J0EB and Blasoon as current GMs of Norfolk and both current (and previous) members of the Liberty - coupled with Juniped, and Lightnoir as members of the Liberty, it is understanding why many members have ventured here. Additionally, Bex, former NOLA GM IsaStarcrossed, and current GM Drector were all former Seawolves who are still also active in the locker room and knew the rookies over the past several seasons. Hotdog, and xQCFamous were also a part of the Outlaws and Norfolk, to drive that connection as well.

Next we have the Portland Pythons: Like the Seawolves, there are no massive connections, but the largest fall with the Outlaws and the Sabercats. The lowest percentages go to the Copperheads, Hahalua, and Sailfish, and those are the three teams with the lowest total draft picks over the last several seasons, so it is reasonable to assume that would factor into the low percentage of draftees, especially given Portland being one of the largest franchises of the DSFL teams. When we look and dive into the draft percentages for the last three seasons, we can see if the information remains the same. Portland was the former home of Saba, Zamir, Moosecop, Opera_Phantom, and Unicorn, who have made their way from Portland into the Outlaws. Between GMs and most likely War Room members being a part of both of these teams, seeing the large percentage of Pythons heading to the Arizona Outlaws makes perfect sense. The more surprising connection is SJS and Portland for me, as I am unaware of any big player connections there (please correct me if I’m wrong), just a steady stream of players continuing through the draft train.

Finally, we have the Tijuana Luchadores. Throughout their franchise history, Tijuana has drafted and had drafted the most players of any DSFL team. Their locker room speaks for itself, and I have heard multiple Tijuana players discuss how Tijuana is home and how they want to return there. Throughout the past 17 seasons, Tijuana has primarily been drafted to the Liberty, which does seem a surprise to me, as most users would have suspected New Orleans due to the connections of current GM TomHanks to Tijuana, as well as their numerous players currently and formerly on the team. In fact, though, most over the history, most Tijuana players ventured to the Liberty over the Second Line.

Since there are so many discrepancies in terms of available draftees, length of establishment within teams,etc. I decided to take the information from the last expansion to the present day and compare as well.

[Image: UewJTKT.png]

Obviously unsurprisingly are the continued zero drafts of Liberty drafting Birddogs, and Copperheads drafting Royals. Adding to that, over the past 3 seasons the Copperheads have not drafted from the Grey Ducks and the Seawolves in addition. They primarily have drafted from the Pythons and Dallas Birddogs - Dallas which of course has strong ties to the Copperheads team.

Kansas City becomes a big surprise in changes from their whole franchise to the past three years. 20% of Coyotes go to the Sailfish and the Hahalua, which there aren’t necessarily big connections with the GMs, but there may be between members of the War Room and these teams. Drafting can obviously snowball with this.

The London Royals numbers stay the same, like the Birddogs, due to their numbers being identical for both seasons.

As we look at the Grey Ducks, there is a bigger trend away from drafting to the Yeti in recent years than previously discussed, and instead, the Grey Ducks tend to move toward the Sabercats, Otters, and Sailfish.

Myrtle Beach trended in a similar manner, with a higher percentage going to the Sailfish and the Hahalua. Previous connections between these teams was discussed earlier, as well.

Norfolk Seawolves reach some larger changes, moving from a large portion of Outlaws being drafted from the Seawolves, to less than 4% in the recent years. There is still a strong connection to the Butchers, Hawks, Second Line and Sailfish, - which switches the Sailfish from 5% drafted to 11% drafted.

Portland continues to show strong ties to Austin and Baltimore, with a more recent uptick in being drafted to the Sailfish, and the Hahalua - again, due to both teams being newer.

Finally, we have the Luchadores, over the past three seasons the majority of the Luchadores have not been drafted to the Second Line as was seen by the last 17 seasons, but in fact, most Luchadores are heading to the Hahalua, the Yeti, and the Butchers.

There is definitely a lot more analysis that could be done about this, and I’m sure that I have some pieces wrong, but it has been a fascinating dive to see where there were strong connections (specifically GMs of DSFL teams or GMs of ISFL team draft connections), and where the trends that you may have heard whispers of throughout the league are supported, or proved inaccurate over the past few seasons.

If you’re looking to find your way on a specific ISFL team - I can’t guarantee that this will help at all, but it might offer you a little more insight into where there are a lot of team members who can covertly scout you while you are an active participant in the locker room.

A big thanks to the Yeti Locker Room for giving me some more ideas and things to think about, and a massive shout out to IsaStarcrossed who was my secondary history source as I tried to navigate and find some of these connections between the teams.

Code:
Some additional edits or notes based on comments and conversations post publication:

As some members have pointed out - current GMs for the Wraiths were KCC members so that definitely helps to explain a lot of those strong ties. Also Butters first character was an SJS lifer, and he was there in KCC with Matty GMing. Fly and and Rrad were also heavily involved in KCC (as players or GMs)

Mori also has Myrtle Beach ties, leading to more big Philly ties.

I'll continue to edit with the extra information y'all share with me. This has been absolutely fascinating.

(Thank you Jackets, Matty Kidd)

RE: What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - Starboy - 09-12-2020

Quote: As far as I have been able to find, the Wraiths have no real connection to Kansas City (with the GMs not being former players)

PMoney is a former Kansas City player and Flyeagles is a former GM. There is no greater connection with KC and an ISFL teams

RE: What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - SchwarzNarr - 09-12-2020

(09-12-2020, 01:55 PM)Jackets28 Wrote:
Quote: As far as I have been able to find, the Wraiths have no real connection to Kansas City (with the GMs not being former players)

PMoney is a former Kansas City player and Flyeagles is a former GM. There is no greater connection with KC and an ISFL teams

Thank you! I didn't know about this one. That definitely makes a ton of sense for that then!! I knew I was gonna miss things, but I'm glad we've got the collective to help solidify this information.

RE: What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - Starboy - 09-12-2020

(09-12-2020, 01:56 PM)SchwarzNarr Wrote:
(09-12-2020, 01:55 PM)Jackets28 Wrote:
Quote: As far as I have been able to find, the Wraiths have no real connection to Kansas City (with the GMs not being former players)

PMoney is a former Kansas City player and Flyeagles is a former GM. There is no greater connection with KC and an ISFL teams

Thank you! I didn't know about this one. That definitely makes a ton of sense for that then!! I knew I was gonna miss things, but I'm glad we've got the collective to help solidify this information.

All good. Hard finding some stuff from the past but I tried to keep the KC team info page up to date until I was the GM. Very interesting information and research though!

RE: What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - SchwarzNarr - 09-12-2020

(09-12-2020, 01:58 PM)Jackets28 Wrote:
(09-12-2020, 01:56 PM)SchwarzNarr Wrote:
(09-12-2020, 01:55 PM)Jackets28 Wrote:
Quote: As far as I have been able to find, the Wraiths have no real connection to Kansas City (with the GMs not being former players)

PMoney is a former Kansas City player and Flyeagles is a former GM. There is no greater connection with KC and an ISFL teams

Thank you! I didn't know about this one. That definitely makes a ton of sense for that then!! I knew I was gonna miss things, but I'm glad we've got the collective to help solidify this information.

All good. Hard finding some stuff from the past but I tried to keep the KC team info page up to date until I was the GM. Very interesting information and research though!

Yeah, it was fun to kind of see where those connections are. I wish there was a bigger/easier database to see a players team history, and view the overall data, but I was struggling at times to find some information on the Wiki. I'm really curious to see what else I missed, and other hidden connections people may not be as familiar with. Almost like a league family tree, haha.

RE: What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - The_Kidd - 09-12-2020

The first season I joined, Myrtle Beach won the Ultimini and Mori was already a head scout for them as Frost got ready to leave for Sarasota. That could help explain why Liberty and Myrtle Beach have strong ties.

Butters was KC GM while I was in DSFL and became my ISFL GM for 3 weeks. Turns out his first player was a Sabrecat lifer which explains the KC-SJ ties and why SJ took him 4th overall when he finally recreated.

As for other strong teams like Tijuana having an even spread, it's likely due to strong recruiting/drafting and turning solid players into cant miss prospects which no team would pass up on. Same for Dallas, they tend to pull in quality users that can bring something special to every team and hence why they go all over and not just Austin. I bet if we were to breakdown average draft position or compare change in DSFL draft position to ISFL draft position ---- Dallas and Tijuana would be near the top of both

RE: What DSFL Team to Woo to Get Your Preferred ISFL Team - Pat - 09-12-2020

Holy shit dude this is a super in depth article. I love it.