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+---- Thread: *Gfx grading (/showthread.php?tid=28104)
RE: Gfx grading - infinitempg - 12-04-2020
A few thoughts here as a former HO and gfx guy.
I'm still pretty against P2P transactions for graphics mostly because someone like me could basically go to their whole team and say "Hey team, make a shitty MS Paint graphic and I'll pay you [insert maximum amount here]. Then suddenly everyone on my team is [insert maximum amount here] richer and I don't even notice anything. If (and that's a strong if) we do allow P2P graphics, there would have to be strict regulations to stop someone like myself or other rich folk in the league from basically bankrolling their whole team and circumventing the cap and league jobs economy. Obviously setting maximums on spending is possible but I worry about abuse like mentioned above.
I think the other thing is that we used to have a standard graphics payout and that meant that low effort graphics would get paid off at the same rate as graphics that took hours to make. I think we can all agree that's unfair. Watching shitty MS Paint memes get paid the same standard rate as graphics I spent time on really made me question if I wanted to make graphics at a constant rate for the league. The benefit to a rubric grading system is to try and value high-effort graphics more than low-effort, and unfortunately graphics (unlike media) is extremely subjective. While the eye test is worth a lot, it's better to give people a solid rubric so that they know what to work on to improve themselves as a graphic artist.
Having P2P transactions fill that gap will still strongly dis-incentivize graphics as a method of making money and mean media takes even more of a slice of the pie. This is because you wouldn't be able to make graphics for yourself and make money. When I first joined, making graphics was my way of making money (because eye kant right gud), and so a standard payment with P2P on top means that new users who don't know anyone will have less incentive to work on graphics.
Ultimately I think HO is right to be wary of P2P graphics because it is ripe for corruption, and switching to a standard pay can also result in less graphics being made. That being said, HO is very busy and won't necessarily have time to come up with an overhauled graphics payment system with the adequate rules and regulations to prevent abuse - so if you want to see this happen, I would suggest writing up a proposal that addresses the various issues and pitching it to HO. Just saying "we want player transactions for graphics" will result in an instant no - but if you tell HO how your system will actively prevent abuse, they'll be more willing to come to the table.
RE: Gfx grading - Hallmonitor_20 - 12-04-2020
I do agree that there will be abuse of the P2P by rich GMs or rich players in general. There's abuse of every rule in the league because if you're not bending rules then you're not trying amrita?
But maybe we can find a price for same team player transactions that works better (PBE has it at 3m a season but that price should be looked into) and also maybe make a rule that a GM can't pay more than 1m per player per season (again the numbers need to be broke down more).
I feel like I make more money in PBE because I can submit my 3 base rate sigs a week with a guaranteed payout and then make personal sigs that can range from 3m-6m depending on the user and how much they like it.
I personally like the changes made to the gfx department lately but I feel like it can make graphics too generic. I feel like I have to merge my sigs to meet a certain criteria to guarantee a payment instead of trying something new.
Theres pros-cons to both sides but I think letting players actually buy sigs will lead to more creativity and less of a rubric style graphic.
Maybe have it in the rules that the player payments can be lowered due to low quality that way people aren't being paid 6m to make a 5 minute MS paint sig.
RE: Gfx grading - Jangorhino - 12-04-2020
the discussion is appreciated! thank you.
it would also be really cool to see something done in the way of moving the creative community forward. there are some amazing creators in the league and it would be rad to see something done to build some cohesion and help with the less experienced creators. not sure this is grader specific but im sure theres a way to integrate them too.
RE: *Gfx grading - jsteele14 - 12-04-2020
I was always curious about why this league never did P2P transactions like PBE does. They recently added a way to not allow an abuse on the paying players/friends unfairly. Like the rule is for players on your own team. Only able to pay at max 5m combined in a season to players on your own team or something worded similar.
RE: *Gfx grading - Symmetrik - 12-05-2020
I'll say as a graphics maker pretty experienced with the PBE system, this one is much better.
With a fixed payout, the payout has to be low. Like, probably 500k. Which for anyone who puts in effort, it isn't worth doing it at all when people can make the same amount with taking a picture and adding 1 layer of text to it.
Which makes P2P transactions the only way to appropriately get paid for effort. And then you are working on someone else's schedule and desires. Not to mention, you can never make sigs for yourself and get adequately paid. You can never surprise someone and get adequately paid.
I submitted graphics on PBE in November with my new recreate, and that was the first time I'd created graphics in PBE in almost a year (which I made because I was creating a resources forum and made the sigs since I was cutting out renders to drop a render pack).
RE: *Gfx grading - Jangorhino - 12-05-2020
(12-05-2020, 01:14 AM)Symmetrik Wrote: I'll say as a graphics maker pretty experienced with the PBE system, this one is much better.
With a fixed payout, the payout has to be low. Like, probably 500k. Which for anyone who puts in effort, it isn't worth doing it at all when people can make the same amount with taking a picture and adding 1 layer of text to it.
Which makes P2P transactions the only way to appropriately get paid for effort. And then you are working on someone else's schedule and desires. Not to mention, you can never make sigs for yourself and get adequately paid. You can never surprise someone and get adequately paid.
I submitted graphics on PBE in November with my new recreate, and that was the first time I'd created graphics in PBE in almost a year (which I made because I was creating a resources forum and made the sigs since I was cutting out renders to drop a render pack).
Thanks for adding to the discussion, I really appreciate your input and perspective!
RE: *Gfx grading - Blasoon - 12-07-2020
I'll preface that I'm not heavily involved with gfx, so if my idea isn't great, please just discount it. But on the topic of P2P abuse, I think that could be overcome through a system of gfx Arbiters (or something like that) who are able to have the ability to confirm all transactions. Hopefully this would be nothing more than a simple glance at the product and payment, and subsequent evaluation of fairness. Additionally, I believe this system might also prevent anything low quality from being used to bankroll teams.
Additionally, just as a little support for our current system, one thing that I do appreciate about not doing P2P is that it allows new users to more access to gfx, via being able to request sigs. Of course, I'm not as well versed in how other leagues systems work, so I'd love to hear more on gfx accessibility to true rookies in PBE and SHL.