A modest O-line proposal

[Quigonginger]

A ton of this convo seems to be coming from people who weren't around for the beginning of the league. I was.

In the first 3 drafts combined, there were over 40 OL creates.
By the end of S3, there were all of 2 or 3 active OL members.

With an IA rate of over 90%, OL just wasn't seen as a reliable position.

The reason OL bots were even created in the first place was that people who created OL were the most likely to go IA. And, this wasn't because people forced them out of the position, in fact it was almost the opposite. Angus Winchester was well known for being one of the most effective OL members there was in the league. OL creates wanted to be like him. However, they found that because the sim makes absolutely no sense, having similar stats wouldn't necessarily give them similar outcomes, and they slowly disappeared.

As a member of the HO that implemented OL bots in the first place, I can assure you this was not a process taken lightly. Hours and hours of testing went into place to see just how we would implement it while still allowing active users to be more effective than bots.

The reason you see all bots in the league isn't due to some systemic bias against OL players, it's because nobody has stayed active long enough to become a viable player in the position.

In my opinion, forcing GMs to draft specific players is absolutely insane. Right now, if you wanted to field an entire team of safeties you could. You wouldnt have a very effective defense, but you could do it. There is a reason DL guys get drafted early: they can contribute at lower TPE levels. Short of having OL players get a 200ish TPE bump at the start, and therefore making them be viable in the nsfl almost immediately (therefore bypassing every other position who needs some time in the lower league to build up their player), our very clear warning that OL is a very tough position to succeed in is more than enough.

We already have a significant shortage of CBs due to the fact that most GMs are more than happy to plug and play safeties at the position. LBs seem to be heading that way as well.

So my point is: why buff a position that has done historically poorly, even at the wild west that was the beginning of the league, when we have other positions that are also starting to have less and less relevance?

I actually appreciate the fact that most Oline spots are botted. There is no way I could see 5 humans on a team doing this. Apparently after LT and RT the interior barely matter. Maybe that's partially why they burned out. They didn't have tangible stats? Nobody knew what the sim was going to be like? I bet it was cool seeing an all rookie season. But that's not the batch that was just created.

I made one with knowledge that I may have to kick around the lower league longer, that was clear. But that there is a cap and I have to sit on 100 TPE just to edge out a bot (a player would be understandable but waiting to be better than a bot is stupid as hell), that drafting and waivers would limit my chances anyway, and that only 1 DSFL team even cares about o-line and they can't get all of us this time. Yeah nobody said any of that. Nobody said after the season starts most GMs don't want to "lose waiver priority" to get one in case a better position shows up.

GMs would get creative with 4 Oline bots too. Plug in that extra TE at center or something. In your scenario if a GM is struggling to field anything other than safeties and DL, you don't just go botting LBs and CBs. And of course DL do well. They start off versus almost exclusively 350 TPE bots that never get any better. If wideouts were all 350 that never improved, CBs would be great off the line too.

LT is still my favorite position and i'm going to stick it out regardless to be the premier blind-side protector. I just think others would be attracted to it if we aren't stuck behind a wall of bots and nobody else has to. Wait for a team to have a need is one thing, wait to be better than a bot is just lame. And i'm stunned at every level it feels like "this can't improve" is the consensus. If it wasn't for CRF trying to improve things as best he can as a user i would have just moved on. I really couldn't understand the position tracker as a new player so the dire lack of CBs is new to me. Maybe that's a better avenue for improvement for positions not full of bots.

I don't think we should get a boost of TPE so we can make a radical change overnight. I already suggested a better solution of phasing it in slowly with either 1 bot regressing gradually or just giving the community a few seasons to prepare and adjust. Or abort if it's not working. It's a modest proposal to phase in one role to be in-line with everyone else now that we know much more about the sim and roles of the o-line.

[PaytonM34]

Enter (S15) - Brave Ulysses - OL

TC stated we bring an advantage with weight alone if we're BOTH AT 350 TPE. Dude has been kicking around on Luchadores and updated as recently as late May....no call up. There's a dude from S13 on the team. Never got his call up. Any other position, other than the glamorous and competitive QBs, have to kick around this long?

Well, to be fair, I did ask to stay down in the DSFL for this long. Every summer my activity level drops to minimal TPE gains, you can look at my last character (Brian Mills, S6 linebacker) for that same drop in activity. After one more run at another DSFL ring, I'll probably be called up. Until then, idk how my player will perform in the NSFL, I guess we'll find out in a couple months

[Daybe]

GMs would get creative with 4 Oline bots too. Plug in that extra TE at center or something. In your scenario if a GM is struggling to field anything other than safeties and DL, you don't just go botting LBs and CBs. And of course DL do well. They start off versus almost exclusively 350 TPE bots that never get any better. If wideouts were all 350 that never improved, CBs would be great off the line too.

LT is still my favorite position and i'm going to stick it out regardless to be the premier blind-side protector. I just think others would be attracted to it if we aren't stuck behind a wall of bots and nobody else has to. Wait for a team to have a need is one thing, wait to be better than a bot is just lame. And i'm stunned at every level it feels like "this can't improve" is the consensus. If it wasn't for CRF trying to improve things as best he can as a user i would have just moved on. I really couldn't understand the position tracker as a new player so the dire lack of CBs is new to me. Maybe that's a better avenue for improvement for positions not full of bots.

I don't think we should get a boost of TPE so we can make a radical change overnight. I already suggested a better solution of phasing it in slowly with either 1 bot regressing gradually or just giving the community a few seasons to prepare and adjust. Or abort if it's not working. It's a modest proposal to phase in one role to be in-line with everyone else now that we know much more about the sim and roles of the o-line.

If I put a 250 pound tight end in at center I can assure you he would get his skull kicked in. Not that he actually wants to play offensive line or anything, but he HAS to because of a dumb rule. Stocking up on safeties and DL is not a foreign concept. Last season we ran with 5 safeties, 4 defensive linemen, 1 cornerback, and 1 linebacker on our team. Guess what, we went 10-3 and had the same record as the 1 seed.

The reason why we are against phasing this in slowly is cause we haven’t SEEN any of you been successful. And if the time comes when a majority of you ARE NSFL caliber, we’ll accept that maybe some OL are here to say. Maybe GMs will evaluate you more highly than just “Oh, these guys go inactive no matter what.”

And yes, this conversation happens every few seasons. A few guys create offensive linemen and clamor for changes. Their proposals aren’t very thought out and generally they have little knowledge of the simulation. Their proposals die and then they go inactive.

[PaytonM34]

And yes, this conversation happens every few seasons. A few guys create offensive linemen and clamor for changes. Their proposals aren’t very thought out and generally they have little knowledge of the simulation. Their proposals die and then they go inactive. ?????

Yeah those guys fuckin sucked

[timeconsumer]

We already have a significant shortage of CBs due to the fact that most GMs are more than happy to plug and play safeties at the position. LBs seem to be heading that way as well.

Yeah but this is rather unrelated and we've seen shifts like this happen back and forth several times. We've had times where almost all safety positions were corners. We've had times where there were DL in LB spots. We've had times with LB at Safety spots. Sometimes you just gotta roll with what people create.

FWIW Corners do have an advantage at Corner that Safeties don't.

[TomHanks]

FWIW Corners do have an advantage at Corner that Safeties don't.

What about nickel backs? Any increased value to having a corner there over a safety?

[timeconsumer]

What about nickel backs? Any increased value to having a corner there over a safety?

Nope