What are some OTHER badly written rules we can fix

[Squamish]

- One (1) time per career a player may choose to switch positions. If a player chooses to switch to a new position they must have their GM post in the NSFL GM area that the player is officially changing positions.
- One (1) time per career a player may choose to switch archetypes. If a player chooses to switch to a new archetpe they must post in their update thread that the player is officially changing archetypes.

Are these mutually exclusive? You can change position once AND you can change archetype within the position once?

[Squamish]

@Squamish @ me when you’ve finished looking it over and I can answer things in one post just so this doesn’t get cluttered. All of the things you’ve brought up the GMs / HO have a set precedent way of going about but it just hasn’t made its way to writing in the rule book (for some reason). It’s good that you point it out though

Will do. Rest of my replies will be in one post :cheers:

[Squamish]

- One (1) time per career a player may choose to switch positions. If a player chooses to switch to a new position they must have their GM post in the NSFL GM area that the player is officially changing positions.

This with regard to the Leafer issue - since he didn't really CHOOSE to switch, does it still count as his one switch, and he can never go back to QB?

Tampering:
A. What is Tampering?
1. Tampering is defined as a player or GM approaching a player under contract with another team or who's rights are owned by another team outside of the public forums, with the purpose of persuading them to join your team, request a trade, or hold out on contract negotiations.

So according to this rule - you can tamper openly with someone if it's done on the site, as it wouldn't be outside of the public forums. I also feel it would be incredibly hard to moderate things like PMs on a different site, or facebook/social media if anyone has anyone on there. Great rule to have, just hard to moderate.

1. Will be handled on a case-by-case basis, but may include a fine, loss of draft picks, or loss of GM position.

Another case by case thing that I'm not super fond of, rather than set limitations, but fair.

3. A suspended player may not earn any TPE.

If he earned TPE prior to the suspension, but had not yet been awarded it or had not yet claimed it, can he use it when he returns from suspension, since it was not earned while suspended?

I'll leave the rest of the issues with tampering as they're addressed earlier in the thread, but I agree with Bovo and AzhekAhriman's points on that.

A. Playoff Rules & Format
1. The top 4 teams from the regular season make the playoffs.
2. First round #1 west seed vs #2 west seed and #1 east seed vs #2 east seed

The top 4 teams may or may not be the 1 and 2 seeds in each conference - if the 1 and 2 seeds in each conference get in, then perhaps the first point should be worded as "The top 2 teams in each conference from the regular season make the playoffs" rather than appearing as though we allow crossover. (Although crossover would be an interesting suggestion, in the instance in which one conference is just poor)

1. Any user who abuses moderation powers in order to alter (without permission or valid reasoning) another users post, topic, or reply will be given the follow punishments:

You know my issues with this. Valid reasoning doesn't say anything.

- No multis. If caught all multi accounts will be deleted and their players retired. The original account will also be subject to discipline.

How is it determined which account is the original account?

- Players may make bets with their NSFL money, but they must post bets publicly in the bank before it takes place. The league reserves the right to deny any bet they see as an attempt to circumvent any rules.

Clarification on how the bets work? Must both sides of a bet be attempting to win said bet, or is it feasible that a person could enter into a bet intending to lose, and it's fine as long as it doesn't circumvent rules? Again it would be incredibly hard to moderate - anyone who plays fantasy football knows that people do things thinking it benefits them and it can look on the surface like an obvious giveaway.

5) All Job heads must produce reports regarding progress/goals at the beginning of the season and at its end.

What does this mean?

6) New GMs must retain current brand for at least one *full* season before considering a rebrand (while adhering to the 7 year no relocation rule)

What constitutes "considering" a rebrand?

12) NSFL teams can sign and bring up any NSFL free agent that is on a DSFL roster (assuming they have been drafted).

Is there a time frame applicable for this rule? Before the season, before the trade deadline, before the playoffs, at any time? I could see this crippling a DSFL team at the wrong moment.

@bovovovo - and anything that has a precedent, it should probably get into the rulebook

[bovovovo]

In the budget section, the only thing I can find about signing inactives is

5. Inactive players may be signed at the contract minimum for their TPE range.

I'm curious as to how the rest of it works - is there a chance for the team holding the inactive to sign him to an extension first, before the rest of the league gets a chance? If he reaches FA, since he can't choose a team (being inactive) is it first come first serve or can teams outbid others?

Once the new season officially starts, it's first come first serve. GMs typically re-sign their inactives during the offseason, before the next season officially starts. There is a rule that if somebody was active, never signed an extension, becomes a FA, then goes inactive while they're still an FA, then the team that owned his rights previously gets 24(?) hours to resign him since he's newly inactive. After that, first come first serve.

- If a player changes positions they will be allowed to move 50% of their total TPE to new attributes. No attribute may go over the maximum value allowed with the new build, even if it was above it before the position switch.

TPE that is REQUIRED BY RULE to be moved (above the maximum) - does the user still get to choose to move an additional 50% other than that which is required, or is the required move part of the 50%?

Example:

Bob Smith - QB pays to move to RB. He has 800 TPE, and 80 in Intelligence. When he changes position, he joins an archetype for RB that has a 75 cap in Intelligence. Does he get to move 400 of the 800 TPE excluding that which he's required to move to get Intelligence down to 75, or including it?

TPE isn't required by rule to be moved, just that you are only allowed to reallocated up to 50%. If after your switch you still have something above the max (in your example, say they have 80 Int when the new max is 75) and they've already reallocated 50% elsewhere, then they lose that TPE. This is by design I believe, adds realism to position switches. I can see how the wording on this one may be a little unclear, but I don't think anyone has had an issue with it before.

- One (1) time per career a player may choose to switch positions. If a player chooses to switch to a new position they must have their GM post in the NSFL GM area that the player is officially changing positions.
- One (1) time per career a player may choose to switch archetypes. If a player chooses to switch to a new archetpe they must post in their update thread that the player is officially changing archetypes.

Are these mutually exclusive? You can change position once AND you can change archetype within the position once?

Nope, not mutually exclusive. You can position change once and you can change archetype once. If you archetype change, and then later position change, you cannot archetype change again. This rule used to be you could only archetype change within your first 3 seasons too, but was recently expanded so you can archetype change at any point in your career, just once.

- One (1) time per career a player may choose to switch positions. If a player chooses to switch to a new position they must have their GM post in the NSFL GM area that the player is officially changing positions.

This with regard to the Leafer issue - since he didn't really CHOOSE to switch, does it still count as his one switch, and he can never go back to QB?

Teams can't just force a player to switch, because they still have to post it in their own update thread. If a player doesn't want to they can just never put it in their update and the switch won't go through even if the GM posted it in the GM area. Also it's very bad business to make a player position switch if they don't want to. So specifically to Leafer, as far as I know he agreed to it and yes that is his one position switch he is allowed.

Tampering:
A. What is Tampering?
  1. Tampering is defined as a player or GM approaching a player under contract with another team or who's rights are owned by another team outside of the public forums, with the purpose of persuading them to join your team, request a trade, or hold out on contract negotiations.

So according to this rule - you can tamper openly with someone if it's done on the site, as it wouldn't be outside of the public forums. I also feel it would be incredibly hard to moderate things like PMs on a different site, or facebook/social media if anyone has anyone on there. Great rule to have, just hard to moderate.

Yeah I agree the tampering stuff can be fleshed out some more, I have a comment up higher about it.

3. A suspended player may not earn any TPE.

If he earned TPE prior to the suspension, but had not yet been awarded it or had not yet claimed it, can he use it when he returns from suspension, since it was not earned while suspended?

As far as I know yes, but I'm not sure. Might be wrong. Could be no since the claim thread would likely be posted while they're still suspended. This has come up before but I don't remember what happened.

A. Playoff Rules & Format
  1. The top 4 teams from the regular season make the playoffs.
  2. First round #1 west seed vs #2 west seed and #1 east seed vs #2 east seed

The top 4 teams may or may not be the 1 and 2 seeds in each conference - if the 1 and 2 seeds in each conference get in, then perhaps the first point should be worded as "The top 2 teams in each conference from the regular season make the playoffs" rather than appearing as though we allow crossover. (Although crossover would be an interesting suggestion, in the instance in which one conference is just poor)

Yeah I think I agree with that. It's never been an issue but I can see how it may be somewhat unclear. People have brought up crossover but frankly having the divisions is better in my opinion because it creates rivalries and makes the divisions actually meaningful.

1. Any user who abuses moderation powers in order to alter (without permission or valid reasoning) another users post, topic, or reply will be given the follow punishments:

You know my issues with this. Valid reasoning doesn't say anything.

And you probably know my response by now

- No multis. If caught all multi accounts will be deleted and their players retired. The original account will also be subject to discipline.

How is it determined which account is the original account?

The one that was created first time-wise.

- Players may make bets with their NSFL money, but they must post bets publicly in the bank before it takes place. The league reserves the right to deny any bet they see as an attempt to circumvent any rules.

Clarification on how the bets work? Must both sides of a bet be attempting to win said bet, or is it feasible that a person could enter into a bet intending to lose, and it's fine as long as it doesn't circumvent rules? Again it would be incredibly hard to moderate - anyone who plays fantasy football knows that people do things thinking it benefits them and it can look on the surface like an obvious giveaway.

There's an area in the banks for it but honestly it might be dead lol. Basically someone would post the terms of the bet, the other person would reply "accept." That "league reserves the right to deny any bet" thing lets HO be able to shut down any bets that they think may be a form of money laundering or other issues.

Example would be there was once a bet that if a certain thing happened, a player would join the other team. This was seen as a kind of form of tampering and the bet was nullified.

5) All Job heads must produce reports regarding progress/goals at the beginning of the season and at its end.

What does this mean?

Basically they have to tell HO what their goal is for the season, and then at the end whether or not they met their goal. There was some concern in the past about some lame duck job heads so this is basically just a method for quality control.

6) New GMs must retain current brand for at least one *full* season before considering a rebrand (while adhering to the 7 year no relocation rule)

What constitutes "considering" a rebrand?

As far as I know, changing the team name, location, and/or logo. So what Legion/NOLA did. I'm not sure if tweaks to logos count though, so that's probably up to HO's discretion. SJS has tweaked their logo a few times before this rule, I'm not sure if that would now fall under it today or not.

12) NSFL teams can sign and bring up any NSFL free agent that is on a DSFL roster (assuming they have been drafted).

Is there a time frame applicable for this rule? Before the season, before the trade deadline, before the playoffs, at any time? I could see this crippling a DSFL team at the wrong moment.

I don't believe there is a time frame, no. It basically just gives NSFL teams first priority for unsigned FAs. Like earlier with the inactives, if there's an inactive in the DSFL who is not re-signed by their team than another team can sign them and call them up if they need/want them.


I do agree that some rules can be ironed out a little bit. Also I may be incorrect about one or two of these, I'm not an expert lol. Agreed with the precedent thing too I think

[White Cornerback]

PBE had some shenanigans with a tampering definition similar to this, so I don't think it'd hurt to get this tweaked. Maybe remove the "outside of the public forums" bit.

Also what if a player approaches a GM and asks them to trade for him? That's happened before, and I would personally categorize that as tampering. Though it's weird... the player could just go to their own GM and ask to be traded.



Not a big fan of this rule to be honest, doesn't make much sense to me but maybe I've just never had the reasoning for it explained to me

The second part is there mainly because if a player/gm doesn't feel like they've been tampered with then they wont submit it to HO. Otherwise we get teams trying to setup eachother and bait them into tampering to leave them worse off.

[White Cornerback]

3. GM Recreation Rules
      - All re-creating General Managers (this includes Co-General Managers) must use their team's highest second (2nd) round pick in the proceeding NSFL Draft on their own player.
      - If both the General Manager and Co-General Manager are recreating, the team must give up their own first (1st) round pick and their own second (2nd) round pick, if they wish to continue to GM that team.

Seems odd that in the first case, it's the highest 2nd, but in the second case, it's their own 1st and 2nd. I feel like something should go in here for a stipulation in the case where they don't have their own - trading for any 1st or 2nd in the draft as long as one of each are used, or they have to trade back for their own (and what to do if the team owning their pick refuses to trade it back to them, can they get a different pick, do they have to hold off on recreating, etc). Also just inconsistent that the rule is that it must be their own pick if both are recreating, but highest available if just one of the two.

Agreed but personally i'd prefer it to be the 1st round pick by default because generally GM's are 1st round talents with the exception of HFFO.

[White Cornerback]

In the budget section, the only thing I can find about signing inactives is

5. Inactive players may be signed at the contract minimum for their TPE range.

I'm curious as to how the rest of it works - is there a chance for the team holding the inactive to sign him to an extension first, before the rest of the league gets a chance? If he reaches FA, since he can't choose a team (being inactive) is it first come first serve or can teams outbid others?

This is dealt with in the change log. Current team gets 24 hours I believe to resign then it's free market.

[bovovovo]

Agreed but personally i'd prefer it to be the 1st round pick by default because generally GM's are 1st round talents with the exception of HFFO.

Ohhhhhhhh the shade

[Squamish]

This is dealt with in the change log. Current team gets 24 hours I believe to resign then it's free market.

Only if the guy goes inactive DURING that span. Bovo got on the rest of it already

[Bzerkap]

3. A suspended player may not earn any TPE.

If he earned TPE prior to the suspension, but had not yet been awarded it or had not yet claimed it, can he use it when he returns from suspension, since it was not earned while suspended?

There actually has been precedent set with this for Er very recently. He was able to claim all TPE earned before his suspension.