S23 ISFL Awards

[SchwarzNarr]

I'm new, so forgive me if it used to be this way and changed, but is there a reason HO gets individual votes? Could they be treated a collective entity of HO which would require discussion among HO members before they cast a vote?

[retrospace111]

no, we don't need rules preventing people from voting on certain players. these public ballots are enough. we can ridicule and shame the terrible ?h?i?p?p?o? votes.

[ADwyer87]

I dont want to defend anyone in this, because they dont deserve it.

I do want to advertise common fucking decency which this league sadly seems to still not have any shred of whatsoever

[ADwyer87]

I kinda hate that I agree with this, but I do. When you think about NOLA having 2 members of HO and well as a team vote, if everyone involved decided to go homer, any NOLA player would immediately have 3 of 16 first place votes. Which is very much enough to swing voting one way or another. I will say at least when I was GM of NOLA, we were completely unbiased in our voting and had some very enthusiastic debates over who deserved what at times. As you have also pointed out, Bex also managed to stay unbiased. That said, there is no guaranteed that is the way it'll always be. Some time in the future with different HO, different GMs, you may have a situation where a team does get awards voting advantage in this situation.

solution: ban NOLA

[ADwyer87]

I don’t think a hard and fast rule is what we need either, apologies if my previous post was unclear.

I don’t think a team voting for its players is a problem, because every team gets one vote. If all or most teams vote for their own players, they are not at a significant advantage because every team can do that.

The problem is HO. Some HO members (which is why I brought up Bex’s ballot) are perfectly capable of voting for their teammates when they believe that they legitimately deserve the award, and not when they don’t. Hippo was not. HO is 2 NOLA players, a BAL player and a COL player. HO members have to be held to a different standard in awards voting because it’s not the case that every team has someone in HO.

This is an isolated incident that I would say is absolutely the exception to the rule. I dont know how voting has been from like, S20 on, but I can say without a doubt that for the majority of my HO years, the problem has not been HO at all. the problem has been GMs as a whole, who have been biased at varying rates. Every team does get a vote, but not every team votes biased. Its an unavoidable problem and while we can always work to make it better, its not something that will ever go away. GMs have by far been responsible for the most egregious bias in awards voting ive seen, including many of the most outraged GMs by this decision. it is rather hypocritical. Example, look back at very long ago HOF votes and see how SJS players who were totally not deserving conveniently get one vote to make it in. Or look back at the rule banning WRs and CB and see how it conveniently was being abused by 2 GMs and it got 2 votes against it. Or very far back and how everyone loved the RFA tag until I used it, then they quickly voted it down. Not all GMs are bad for sure, thats not what im saying. but as a league history aficionado, I dont believe HO has ever been the problem before now. I would much rather argue that leaving the GMs in charge of any facet has caused infinitely more issues

[IsaStarcrossed]

solution: ban NOLA

Yes. This. Also hi Dwyer. <3 How are things?

[Air Crou]

Thanks for misspelling my name guys!

[ADwyer87]

Yes. This. Also hi Dwyer. <3 How are things?

tired bc life is hard and also i decided to stay up till 4:30 when my alarm goes off at 6:30 lol. how about you?

[Memento Mori]

This is an isolated incident that I would say is absolutely the exception to the rule. I dont know how voting has been from like, S20 on, but I can say without a doubt that for the majority of my HO years, the problem has not been HO at all. the problem has been GMs as a whole, who have been biased at varying rates. Every team does get a vote, but not every team votes biased. Its an unavoidable problem and while we can always work to make it better, its not something that will ever go away. GMs have by far been responsible for the most egregious bias in awards voting ive seen, including many of the most outraged GMs by this decision. it is rather hypocritical. Example, look back at very long ago HOF votes and see how SJS players who were totally not deserving conveniently get one vote to make it in. Or look back at the rule banning WRs and CB and see how it conveniently was being abused by 2 GMs and it got 2 votes against it. Or very far back and how everyone loved the RFA tag until I used it, then they quickly voted it down. Not all GMs are bad for sure, thats not what im saying. but as a league history aficionado, I dont believe HO has ever been the problem before now. I would much rather argue that leaving the GMs in charge of any facet has caused infinitely more issues

I was using shorthand. If you look at the context, I meant ‘the problem isn’t biased voting in general, biased voting by GMs is both not a problem because all teams have one vote and inescapable. The problem is biased voting by HO for the reasons I’m about to expand upon’.

I address most of the points you’ve made in the rest of the post.

[ADwyer87]

I was using shorthand. If you look at the context, I meant ‘the problem isn’t biased voting in general, biased voting by GMs is both not a problem because all teams have one vote and inescapable. The problem is biased voting by HO for the reasons I’m about to expand upon’.

I address most of the points you’ve made in the rest of the post.

i dont think thats true. just because every GM has the ABILITY to vote biasedly doesnt mean that they WILL vote biasedly. My point of that post is saying that assuming all GMs will exercise the same bias is historically flawed. having HO representatives can certainly cause issues in an unbalanced way, but I would still argue that removing HO bias isnt going to magically make everyone satisfied with the results of awards voting now