*PBE vs ISFL (with help from iamslm22)

[Beaver]

Better Beaver player – Oakes or Do

Min-Joon Do was a very good PBE player. While he had a slow start despite max earning, in the end Do had a very good career, especially on the defensive end and he was around as one of the longest players. In the end, he did make it to the Hall of Fame, though not right away. He was a really good player honestly. Currently he is 23rd among hitters in career WAR, which frankly is a bit lower than maybe he should have been. Blackford Oakes on the other hand was a safety who also reached the Hall of Fame in the ISFL, so he ties it up in that way. Oakes was really impressive, ending up with over 800 tackles, 48 sacks, 46 interceptions and 99 pass deflections. His 46 interceptions rank second in league history as far as I can tell. Ultimately, I feel like these two players were similarly impressive, but the clinching factor for me is that Blackford Oakes was voted for the First team in the 25th anniversary team rosters. No offense to Min-Joon Do but I don't think he would make the first team in the PBE for that, so I think Oakes is better. Would love to know what @Beaver thinks about this as well. ISFL ties it up with one more question to go. (7-7 tie)

I think it's Oakes and don't think it's really that close. I was pretty shocked that Do Min-joon made the Hall of Fame and think that if I wasn't such a beloved user who everybody likes, adores, and reveres he wouldn't have made the cut. The way I look at it is to compare how the two players rank at their respective positions. I haven't kept up with this league that closely but 20ish seasons into this league Oakes was one of the best safeties in league history -- certainly top 5, probably top 3? If the Wiki is to be believed he's still the only true safety inducted into the HOF, which seems unlikely. 

It's different in baseball of course but at the same 20ish season mark DMJ was slightly lower (certainly top 5, maybe top 3) in 2nd base history but with the significant caveat that he played just under 6 seasons at other positions and he was abysmal for almost all of that -- 1B and DH for his first three and second-to-last and C for his last: 415 games, -3.7 WAR, 42 HR with four of those five seasons below .300 OBP, below .400 SLG, below .700 OPS, below 90 OPS+, and below 80 wRC+. Had he spent those non-peak seasons at 2B his dominant lead in ZR would be much smaller while his WAR would have gone from competitive with the top players to a clear step below. His rate/efficiency stats would've taken a huge hit too and are already not that great to start out with: .334 OBP would drop a bit, that's 9th now and was maybe 6th or so a few seasons ago; .817 OPS would also slide a few spots, it's 5th now and was 4th a few seasons ago but would probably drop to 7th.

In the end I feel like Oakes was an easy HOF induction (he was nearly unanimous, in fact) while DMJ was an accumulator who had several extremely fortunate things go his way:
-not playing 2B at the beginning or end of his career to make his efficiency/rate stats look better than they should have been, compared to other 2Bs
-playing 2B for a long time in the peak of his career to make his counting stats look better when compared with the many players who didn't spend as much time at the position (only Baton played more games at 2B than Do until Love)
-playing on a dynasty
-being on a team with @majesiu and possibly @Trautner when he/they caught on to the fact that defense was much more important on a per-TPE basis than most of the league appreciated at the time

In real life terms I think he was the type of player that gets his number retired by his team and/or inducted into the Team Hall/Ring/Whatever of Fame and who has his case for the real HOF made by the fans of that team but nobody else really cares that much. Hall of Very Good.


Also OL rocks