Kyamprac Player Progression Head Removal

[iStegosauruz]

Why does important information about what actually happened and what was done only ever come out after a near riot. This “data” that was collected should be available to the general user base. If HO really was “doing what is in our best interest” then prove it by showing us how delinquent Kya was at her job. I for one can say I’m not grading the offseason PT because all the questions about transparency will give me a laughing fit.

Full spreadsheet of data

I gotta say, removing the ability to make a copy, and thus making it harder for people to fact check, is very shady

All you have to do is go the claim thread for the specific week you're interested in checking. The process is the same.
I've updated the sharing settings. I typically use those for work and its muscle memory to plug the same settings in.

[SamTwoSix]

QB: Monty Jack
RB: Raphtalia Chan
RB: Kyle
WR: James Angler
WR: Luca Slamdhshdhhebdv
WR: Giovanni Bianchi
TE: Zee Rechs
TE(blocking): Cade Williams
OL: Adam Mellot
OL: Calvin Golladay
OL: Connor Quigley

DE: Arlington Heights
DE: Nero Alexander (he's not dead!)
DT: Chuck Roth
DT: Daniel O'Leary
LB: Haha Mango-Panda
LB: Tyler Montain
LB: Maurice Virtaen (shh)
CB: Rich "rona" Triplet
CB: Maverick (I hate salad) Bowie
NB: PP
NB: Ducksburg Quackstack
S: Andrew Witten (don't act like you haven't played safety before(
S: Mason Blaylock

K/P: Kareem Hunt




Once again a lack of WRs, c'mon guys

honored

[shadyshoelace]

[jdourtled]

Man Kya really out here getting witch hunted for giving herself enough tpe to get her strength from 51 to 52

THAT ADDS AT LEAST ONE* BROKEN TACKLE EVERY COUPLE GAMES**

* It could be more or less I didn't bother doing any research

** Once again, I didn't do any research, the difference between 51 and 52 could be negligible for all I know***, but that doesn't fit the narrative****

*** (for the record I know a lot, so my vast knowledge shouldn't be undermined) 

**** I just wanted to add another.... editor's comment? I don't know what these things are called*****

***** This is probably the worst joke I've ever made, and that's saying a lot

[AW13]

I stand with @Kyamprac !!!

---

At least audit only goes back to S16 right after the corrupt AW as PPT head era. Still can't believe @MrStennett still in the job when I...think...I hired him?

[excelsior]

First off, I'd like to apologize for my cynical comments in the late TPE removal thread last night. Emotions were heightened and I said some pretty inexcusable stuff for someone with such expectations as an HO intern. I appreciate and thank all who called me out so I knew that I crossed the line. I'll take this as a learning experience and move on with it.

I'd also like to thank everyone who took part in civil conversation during this thread and pointed out problems in the thread. I've read all of them twice over and thought to myself as to how we can move forward, as a league, united. 

The reason I'm sitting here writing this after telling myself not to engage in any of this is to hopefully help clear up some confusion on the process and some general misconceptions. Steg has published the data already, so you can check that and cross-reference for yourself.

Being an intern, I have seen all the discussions regarding this case in HO chat, from the time I joined, to the time it is right now. I've participated and watched, dropping in my 2 cents when necessary. It was a long and arduous process, with a lot of time and effort going into the discussions surrounding this topic. I feel as if I have the right to give my thoughts on the entire situation, and my thoughts only. 



Point #1 - Not so late Predictions

I think most users are in agreement that something needed to happen. A culture of leniency had developed within the PPT department where users were being given credit for tasks that were done after the deadline. Now, I've seen many good points in this thread that the deadline itself is dumb and as long as the predictions were done before the games started, no harm done, right? I'm in agreement with a lot of you here. Remember, this league is for fun. We ALL take time out of our day to help this league because we all were brought here by a common passion. People do this as their hobby, and I can't blame graders for grading tasks that were at 7:46 or 7:47, because they were just a couple minutes late. Now, like I said, the data is public, but in case you don't feel like combing through a spreadsheet looking for specific late predictions, I'll do that for you. Now, the majority of the time, the thread gets locked soon after 7:45 PM EST, and usually before or during the streams, but it's never usually left open that long, so people can't get in many super late predictions after the stream ends. So yes, the masses are spot on here, the majority of the TPE is indeed from a few minutes past that tricky deadline, 7:45 PM. Nonetheless, it's still technically illegal TPE. Why? Let me explain.

I'm going to hyperlink a lot of stuff so you don't have to find the threads themselves. Take a look at S27 W14 Predictions, (hyperlinked), specifically the last page. Users WhatAmUs and Ryan Negs submitted their predictions a few minutes past the deadline. I would be fine allowing them to be graded, it was just a few minutes. Now look at users Netlandic, Majesiu and Fno. They submitted their predictions the next day, hours after the game streams have ended. If they had cared, they could have submitted all correct predictions and received full credit. However, they did not, and they received 2, 2.5, and 2 TPE, respectively. This should never have been given credit, but unfortunately was, as you can see here, S27 claim thread, W14 Preds. Scroll to their name and verify it yourself. Notice the user who graded these, Kya herself. Now, let's go to next week, S27 W15 Predictions, where users Rradum, Reverend O'Reily, Kyle, NHamlet, flyeaglesfly and Katarn all submitted within 10 minutes of the deadline, the first few submitting within a minute or 2. All of them denied TPE, and you can cross reference with the post here, S27 claim thread, W15 preds. Notice the user who posted that. Not Kya, but a different grader, one that adhered to the deadlines and rules outlined. Now, how is this fair? Users that submit 12 hours past the deadline get TPE one week while users that submit 1 minute after don't get anything the next week? 

This is just one example of many that you can find by scrolling through the data sheet that steg has provided. Hopefully this clears up some of the misconceptions surrounding the idea that HO was deducting this illegal TPE just because it was past the questionable deadline of 7:45 PM. Head Office deems this type of behavior from Kya was unacceptable. It's unfair to the people who were denied TPE just the week after. You might just say, oh, it was simply just 2 TPE, how does that even matter? It starts with the little things and this type of grading is something that convinced some HO members that something had to be done regarding Kya's position as the head of PPT. The vast majority of the time that late predictions were graded, it was Kya. You can go back through the sheet and check. And to be fair to her, she also graded the majority of the predictions, but the ratios are still very disproportionate. Head Office has clearly stated their position that this type of conduct will not be tolerated. I can't speak for the rest of them and their decisions about the severity of the punishment, but I for one, with all the information and discussions in front of me, stand by the decision that Head Office made. 


Point #2 - The Witch-hunt

Moving on to the more intangible part here. Few people have raised concerns about the legitimacy of the entire investigation and whether or not it was rooted in bias. You may not believe a single word that I write in this section, and that's perfectly fine, but this is from hat I've seen in discussions. Bex and Steg, who's names I've heard connected to a bias, have conducted themselves quite professionally. Bex continues to amaze me each day the way she tackles all the league's problems and the manner of which she speaks to all of us. I can't praise those two enough from my short time here in the league. Steg on the other hand, is a rock of head office, and does a LOT of work. I've read through all the conversations regarding this punishment and investigation. Every investigation will have bias, we're all human and have predisposed thoughts. But Steg purposely tried to make this as impersonal as possible, presenting us raw data and facts, and providing his valuable insight and knowledge when necessary. Did he start the investigation? Did he pursue it relentlessly? No. Darkness has already touched on this topic before but the claims that this was at all, unruly influenced by Steg and his bias, are simply put, false. I think I speak for all of head office with that statement. No one has it out for Kya, and no one has a vendetta for Kya. To think otherwise is just silly. Integrity and impartiality are key, and Steg has upheld both virtues impeccably throughout his time in this investigation and the aftermath. 

I'd like to remind everyone the character of the person should not be a factor at all. Whether Kya was hated by many or loved by all, should not, and will not, be a factor during any investigative process. I know it's very hard for us to lay down our presumptions and look at this from a neutral viewpoint, but that's key in determining guilt and a punishment. Using Kya's personality and character as an argument falsifies the integrity of it. I've had nothing but pleasurable exchanges with Kya during my time in Dallas, and I've talked a lot with many Dallas members, Kya included, so if anything I would have strongly been pro-Kya here, but I tried to look at it from a neutral perspective, and still found my opinion to lie with the majority. 


Closing Thoughts

You may not agree with the severity of the punishment Kya faced, and that's perfectly fine, as that's the opinion you gathered based on the information you had. I for one, thought a change in management of the PPT department would be necessary, and be better for the overall health of the league in the future. A probationary period and a hefty fine felt like a slap on the wrist to me, based off the information I had. The majority of HO felt this same way too. I can't speak for their rationale and logic, but Darkness and Swanty have already given you some insight on how they feel. I really enjoyed engaging in civil discourse with you guys on this thread and appreciate the well thought out responses. Again, forgive me for my inflammatory statements yesterday, I wasn't thinking straight, and I spoke too quickly when tensions were quite high. Inexcusable. Hopefully something I wrote cleared up something you had in your mind, but these are just my 2 cents. We have many, many problems as a league that we face, and I'm looking forward to seeing how we can all attack them  together, as a collective, productively and constructively. This may not have been the outcome that many of you wanted to see, and I'm sorry to see that. Head Office has a lot to do and a lot to think about in the next few days.

Excuse my writing as I wrote this quite hastily, there's probably some grammatical or logical errors in here somewhere.

[Jay_Doctor]

First off, I'd like to apologize for my cynical comments in the late TPE removal thread last night. Emotions were heightened and I said some pretty inexcusable stuff for someone with such expectations as an HO intern. I appreciate and thank all who called me out so I knew that I crossed the line. I'll take this as a learning experience and move on with it.

I'd also like to thank everyone who took part in civil conversation during this thread and pointed out problems in the thread. I've read all of them twice over and thought to myself as to how we can move forward, as a league, united. 

The reason I'm sitting here writing this after telling myself not to engage in any of this is to hopefully help clear up some confusion on the process and some general misconceptions. Steg has published the data already, so you can check that and cross-reference for yourself.

Being an intern, I have seen all the discussions regarding this case in HO chat, from the time I joined, to the time it is right now. I've participated and watched, dropping in my 2 cents when necessary. It was a long and arduous process, with a lot of time and effort going into the discussions surrounding this topic. I feel as if I have the right to give my thoughts on the entire situation, and my thoughts only. 



Point #1 - Not so late Predictions

I think most users are in agreement that something needed to happen. A culture of leniency had developed within the PPT department where users were being given credit for tasks that were done after the deadline. Now, I've seen many good points in this thread that the deadline itself is dumb and as long as the predictions were done before the games started, no harm done, right? I'm in agreement with a lot of you here. Remember, this league is for fun. We ALL take time out of our day to help this league because we all were brought here by a common passion. People do this as their hobby, and I can't blame graders for grading tasks that were at 7:46 or 7:47, because they were just a couple minutes late. Now, like I said, the data is public, but in case you don't feel like combing through a spreadsheet looking for specific late predictions, I'll do that for you. Now, the majority of the time, the thread gets locked soon after 7:45 PM EST, and usually before or during the streams, but it's never usually left open that long, so people can't get in many super late predictions after the stream ends. So yes, the masses are spot on here, the majority of the TPE is indeed from a few minutes past that tricky deadline, 7:45 PM. Nonetheless, it's still technically illegal TPE. Why? Let me explain.

I'm going to hyperlink a lot of stuff so you don't have to find the threads themselves. Take a look at S27 W14 Predictions, (hyperlinked), specifically the last page. Users WhatAmUs and Ryan Negs submitted their predictions a few minutes past the deadline. I would be fine allowing them to be graded, it was just a few minutes. Now look at users Netlandic, Majesiu and Fno. They submitted their predictions the next day, hours after the game streams have ended. If they had cared, they could have submitted all correct predictions and received full credit. However, they did not, and they received 2, 2.5, and 2 TPE, respectively. This should never have been given credit, but unfortunately was, as you can see here, S27 claim thread, W14 Preds. Scroll to their name and verify it yourself. Notice the user who graded these, Kya herself. Now, let's go to next week, S27 W15 Predictions, where users Rradum, Reverend O'Reily, Kyle, NHamlet, flyeaglesfly and Katarn all submitted within 10 minutes of the deadline, the first few submitting within a minute or 2. All of them denied TPE, and you can cross reference with the post here, S27 claim thread, W15 preds. Notice the user who posted that. Not Kya, but a different grader, one that adhered to the deadlines and rules outlined. Now, how is this fair? Users that submit 12 hours past the deadline get TPE one week while users that submit 1 minute after don't get anything the next week? 

This is just one example of many that you can find by scrolling through the data sheet that steg has provided. Hopefully this clears up some of the misconceptions surrounding the idea that HO was deducting this illegal TPE just because it was past the questionable deadline of 7:45 PM. Head Office deems this type of behavior from Kya was unacceptable. It's unfair to the people who were denied TPE just the week after. You might just say, oh, it was simply just 2 TPE, how does that even matter? It starts with the little things and this type of grading is something that convinced some HO members that something had to be done regarding Kya's position as the head of PPT. The vast majority of the time that late predictions were graded, it was Kya. You can go back through the sheet and check. And to be fair to her, she also graded the majority of the predictions, but the ratios are still very disproportionate. Head Office has clearly stated their position that this type of conduct will not be tolerated. I can't speak for the rest of them and their decisions about the severity of the punishment, but I for one, with all the information and discussions in front of me, stand by the decision that Head Office made. 


Point #2 - The Witch-hunt

Moving on to the more intangible part here. Few people have raised concerns about the legitimacy of the entire investigation and whether or not it was rooted in bias. You may not believe a single word that I write in this section, and that's perfectly fine, but this is from hat I've seen in discussions. Bex and Steg, who's names I've heard connected to a bias, have conducted themselves quite professionally. Bex continues to amaze me each day the way she tackles all the league's problems and the manner of which she speaks to all of us. I can't praise those two enough from my short time here in the league. Steg on the other hand, is a rock of head office, and does a LOT of work. I've read through all the conversations regarding this punishment and investigation. Every investigation will have bias, we're all human and have predisposed thoughts. But Steg purposely tried to make this as impersonal as possible, presenting us raw data and facts, and providing his valuable insight and knowledge when necessary. Did he start the investigation? Did he pursue it relentlessly? No. Darkness has already touched on this topic before but the claims that this was at all, unruly influenced by Steg and his bias, are simply put, false. I think I speak for all of head office with that statement. No one has it out for Kya, and no one has a vendetta for Kya. To think otherwise is just silly. Integrity and impartiality are key, and Steg has upheld both virtues impeccably throughout his time in this investigation and the aftermath. 

I'd like to remind everyone the character of the person should not be a factor at all. Whether Kya was hated by many or loved by all, should not, and will not, be a factor during any investigative process. I know it's very hard for us to lay down our presumptions and look at this from a neutral viewpoint, but that's key in determining guilt and a punishment. Using Kya's personality and character as an argument falsifies the integrity of it. I've had nothing but pleasurable exchanges with Kya during my time in Dallas, and I've talked a lot with many Dallas members, Kya included, so if anything I would have strongly been pro-Kya here, but I tried to look at it from a neutral perspective, and still found my opinion to lie with the majority. 


Closing Thoughts

You may not agree with the severity of the punishment Kya faced, and that's perfectly fine, as that's the opinion you gathered based on the information you had. I for one, thought a change in management of the PPT department would be necessary, and be better for the overall health of the league in the future. A probationary period and a hefty fine felt like a slap on the wrist to me, based off the information I had. The majority of HO felt this same way too. I can't speak for their rationale and logic, but Darkness and Swanty have already given you some insight on how they feel. I really enjoyed engaging in civil discourse with you guys on this thread and appreciate the well thought out responses. Again, forgive me for my inflammatory statements yesterday, I wasn't thinking straight, and I spoke too quickly when tensions were quite high. Inexcusable. Hopefully something I wrote cleared up something you had in your mind, but these are just my 2 cents. We have many, many problems as a league that we face, and I'm looking forward to seeing how we can all attack them  together, as a collective, productively and constructively. This may not have been the outcome that many of you wanted to see, and I'm sorry to see that. Head Office has a lot to do and a lot to think about in the next few days.

Excuse my writing as I wrote this quite hastily, there's probably some grammatical or logical errors in here somewhere.

I realize this might be asking quite a lot, but this should be the standard of handing out large decisions such as this one. I'm willing to bet this whole thing would be quite different if 1. all the info was presented right away and presented in a logical fashion. 2. Hearing what the process actually looked like for specific members of HO.

[ztarwarz]

QB: Monty Jack
RB: Raphtalia Chan
RB: Kyle
WR: James Angler
WR: Luca Slamdhshdhhebdv
WR: Giovanni Bianchi
TE: Zee Rechs
TE(blocking): Cade Williams
OL: Adam Mellot
OL: Calvin Golladay
OL: Connor Quigley

DE: Arlington Heights
DE: Nero Alexander (he's not dead!)
DT: Chuck Roth
DT: Daniel O'Leary
LB: Haha Mango-Panda
LB: Tyler Montain
LB: Maurice Virtaen (shh)
CB: Rich "rona" Triplet
CB: Maverick (I hate salad) Bowie
NB: PP
NB: Ducksburg Quackstack
S: Andrew Witten (don't act like you haven't played safety before(
S: Mason Blaylock

K/P: Kareem Hunt




Once again a lack of WRs, c'mon guys

This team would still manage to lose to Baltimore because the sim said so.

[tMuse]

You may not agree with the severity of the punishment Kya faced, and that's perfectly fine, as that's the opinion you gathered based on the information you had. I for one, thought a change in management of the PPT department would be necessary, and be better for the overall health of the league in the future. A probationary period and a hefty fine felt like a slap on the wrist to me, based off the information I had. The majority of HO felt this same way too. I can't speak for their rationale and logic, but Darkness and Swanty have already given you some insight on how they feel. I really enjoyed engaging in civil discourse with you guys on this thread and appreciate the well thought out responses.

The fact that no real harm was done and that it is not possible to prove malicious intent in her actions call for the slap on the wrist move tho.

If she in fact did it willingly to cause harm and or gain an advantage it would be a different story.
The fact of the matter is that there are people in this league who perform a lot worse at their jobs and still get to keep them.

I've never worked with Kya myself but from what i've heard she made the PPT department a better place.
And maybe you guys need to look at the people who try to make the league better? A league of 2nd chances my ass.

Should i worry about my job for not giving a fuck about the times from Activity Checks? I just care if they're in the right post.

HO has shown again and again that they're unable to find a reasonable punishment and they get overturned by the appeals team again and again.


You guys also did a PT Survey in which we told you how you can be more transparent. That task was graded and it's claimable therefore i guess you have read all the answers?
How about including the evidence in the first post of the punishment and not only after a huge shitstorm broke out.

And this is exactly what we mean when we say you guys come across disconnected fom the userbase in general.

We can only read the punishment without any evidence behind it. Based on that and solely on our feeling about that punishment we make a decision if we think it's good or bad and based on that we write our answers in here.

Then 13835801531 pages later the evidence gets posted now we have to make our mind up again, which is way harder as we already took a stance in that matter.

What really needs a change is HO.
It doesn't come across as if HO has the leagues best in mind and that HO doesn't care jackshit about the playerbase and the league as is.
It comes across as if HO is some powerhouse that needs to be feared. You guys act behind closed doors and we only get involved after all the decisions are made. Thats not a player driven league but a league controlled by HO.

Furthermore we users have no say who joins HO and who stays in it.
All we can do is apply hope to get in it and then try to make a change. This system is flawed af and toxic to the league in general.


Just a quick clarification Edit: everytime i say "you" or "you guys" i mean HO in general not you, excelsior, as a single person

[Memento Mori]

I am curious as to how many of the late submissions that are being counted are Predictions submissions taking place between 7:45 and 8:00. As a grader I always let those slide as they still got their submission in before the games started. I would even sometimes be lenient and let a few minutes past 8 be ok since I knew they still wouldn't have any info to go off of at that point. This league is supposed to be a thing we do for fun where we meet new friends and have a good time. Punishing players for submitting a few minutes late is not at all within the spirit of the league, especially when it is being done retroactively.

I already put this in GM chat earlier today when this was being discussed, so ddrector and maybe @excelsior too (the other person who most recently mentioned predictions deadlines, I don't know if interns can view GM chat? I've heard before they don't have access to everything) of the people I'm quoting have already seen this.

As I said in my post earlier, I really doubt that in S16 (the start of the audit) the PPT began accepting late submissions. So I wanted to see if this is something that had always happened.

In Season 1, the deadline to submit predictions was when the games were shown. If you missed the deadline, and posted your predictions after the stream had started, you could still get credit - see the posts by Kronen and Ben - for the games that hadn't happened yet.

In Season 6, the deadline was moved to 15 minutes before the stream. This new deadline was not strictly enforced either. Rather, in the Week 1 Predictions, a user posted at the time the stream was due to start and received full credit in the claim post.

The PPT has always accepted late submissions, presumably for the reasons I and others have already mentioned about it being pro-player and pro-fun. If it is Head Office's position that this is unacceptable, I think they should've just spoken to the PPT about it. HO and the PPT have now agreed to move the prediction deadline to the start of the stream. This compromise could've been reached weeks ago.

Personally, I think 28 seasons of 'you can submit past the deadline and we'll try to give you credit' and 22 seasons of precedent that the 15 minute deadline isn't strict is more impactful than 'but the thread says the deadline is 7:45'. Not every rule has to be interpreted to the letter (see: IRL examples like bad/unpopular laws being ignored because it objectively makes things better for everyone). Some people disagree with this. That's another conversation to have with the PPT, not a reason to fire it's head.