*Addressing Controversy

[PDXBaller]

Can you confirm Pens was told the same? Anecdotes of your own personal experiences aren't evidence. If it can be confirmed that Pens was told the same, then his actions violate that message, even if not the rule. Also, I believe it's possible to give mod powers to certain areas of the board and not others - not entirely sure on that though.

I think you bring up a good point here and I'm not trying to blame anyone for any fault. What I'm wondering is what training or instruction is provided to ANY member who is given moderation powers and what specific instructions were given at the time of their hire.

I was the first DSFL GM to bring this up having noticed that Pens edited all of my active player's roster pages and wasn't able to review what was exactly changed. It caught me off guard and the rest of the DSFL GMs so we brought it up with HO to investigate to see what the extent of the changes were. In the end, if it's just a simple formatting issue I believe he could have brought it up with HO or the DSFL GMs to ask if it was ok for him to make those changes and give his reasoning for editing the pages (which was valid and helpful in the end).

I've personally run into this situation before when I started at my first job and decided to edit a bunch of PDFs to make things more uniform with naming conventions that made sense (Client Name - Product Spec Document Title - Date vs. ClientAbbreviation.Product). Of course I didn't get fired, but I had my rights to that company folder revoked for a month after a stern talking to about making changes to file names without asking the respective sales managers. It boils down to the principle of the matter and people need to realize the overall impact that their changes have (even if it's with good intent).

I do hope @Pens sticks around the league, but I can understand if this experience turned him off our sim league. He's been a great addition to the Luchadores so far and I think the punishment is small enough that he'll be able to bounce back easily.

[ItsJustBarry]

4. Going forward, the league must implement an innocent until proven guilty mentality, rather than the opposite. If in the future, an action is found to be something the league does not want to allow, but it does not explicitly violate a rule, then a rule must either be rewritten or newly added to address the issue - and also, the person doing the action at that time, when such rule was not in effect, is not guilty and should not be punished.

I think you are confusing innocence with intent. While his intentions were with good nature, there is no disputing that the files were altered so he's definitely guilty of the allegations.

[Squamish]

I think you are confusing innocence with intent.  While his intentions were with good nature, there is no disputing that the files were altered so he's definitely guilty of the allegations.

There is no disputing that the files were altered, but there is disputing whether that violates "valid reasoning" because valid reasoning doesn't actually mean anything.

[Squamish]

I think you bring up a good point here and I'm not trying to blame anyone for any fault. What I'm wondering is what training or instruction is provided to ANY member who is given moderation powers and what specific instructions were given at the time of their hire.

I was the first DSFL GM to bring this up having noticed that Pens edited all of my active player's roster pages and wasn't able to review what was exactly changed. It caught me off guard and the rest of the DSFL GMs so we brought it up with HO to investigate to see what the extent of the changes were. In the end, if it's just a simple formatting issue I believe he could have brought it up with HO or the DSFL GMs to ask if it was ok for him to make those changes and give his reasoning for editing the pages (which was valid and helpful in the end).

I've personally run into this situation before when I started at my first job and decided to edit a bunch of PDFs to make things more uniform with naming conventions that made sense (Client Name - Product Spec Document Title - Date vs. ClientAbbreviation.Product). Of course I didn't get fired, but I had my rights to that company folder revoked for a month after a stern talking to about making changes to file names without asking the respective sales managers. It boils down to the principle of the matter and people need to realize the overall impact that their changes have (even if it's with good intent).

I do hope @Pens sticks around the league, but I can understand if this experience turned him off our sim league. He's been a great addition to the Luchadores so far and I think the punishment is small enough that he'll be able to bounce back easily.

If we're questioning what instruction is given, then we should probably hire a guy whose job it is to instruct people in new positions, especially if it's their first position in the league.

He could have brought it up with HO but he had no reason to think that was the next step. It's not an intuitive part of the process unless you've been around the block.

Your job did things weirdly, imo. It could have instead sparked a debate about how to format.

The punishment is small for an established user with a good amount of money. I wouldn't say 2 million is small for a new guy.

[PDXBaller]

If we're questioning what instruction is given, then we should probably hire a guy whose job it is to instruct people in new positions, especially if it's their first position in the league.

He could have brought it up with HO but he had no reason to think that was the next step. It's not an intuitive part of the process unless you've been around the block.

Your job did things weirdly, imo. It could have instead sparked a debate about how to format.

The punishment is small for an established user with a good amount of money. I wouldn't say 2 million is small for a new guy.

Yeah I think that's a great suggestion or at least have someone put together a small training document on instructing anyone if it's their first position in the league. I think you highlight a great point that we can improve on to avoid situations like this in the future.

My job definitely did things weird, but it's the 'real world' and that's how people react sometimes. I've been in Pens shoes before and I felt like it was a dumb warning I got, but I learned from that experience and moved onto a few other companies where I applied that experience in similar situations.

We can agree to disagree on the last point. As a new user, he seemed to pick up the league very quickly and I have complete confidence that he can earn that money back by writing a few more awesome articles or creating a few sigs for his fellow teammates. I love his work and would love to see more of it.

[timeconsumer]

GTFO of here with all this reasonable debate and polite disagreements. NSFL has gone soft. Where's the insults? Where's the personal attacks?

[Squamish]

GTFO of here with all this reasonable debate and polite disagreements. NSFL has gone soft. Where's the insults? Where's the personal attacks?

When one side of the argument is comprised of an old guy who's tired of insults and personal attacks, this is what we get

:cheers:

[timeconsumer]

When one side of the argument is comprised of an old guy who's tired of insults and personal attacks, this is what we get

:cheers:

[iamslm22]

To clarify in the money. Pens came in and wrote a couple of GIANT articles. He then got paid a salary of 5M this season. I think 2M is a drop in the bucket for someone with his activity.

[Squamish]

agreed