S28 Rules Summit

**iStegosauruz** · (This post was last modified: 03-22-2021, 01:27 PM by iStegosauruz.)

(03-22-2021, 12:53 PM)slate Wrote: Since Mag was too nice to push back on @iStegosauruz's comments regarding how this issue "isn't an indication that individuals don't take their jobs seriously," I guess I will. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the discourse that HO and GMs have during rules discussions is bad and a joke rule proposal being on the ballot and announced in the summit thread is a symptom of that. While I don't think the blame lies on any one person or party individually, I do think that in general we (including myself) probably don't take the job of discussing and voting on rules as seriously as we should, and I would appreciate if HO and everyone else involved in these discussions could take some time to think through how to improve it.

More could definitely be done to increase discussion on rules. I'm not sure that there is ever going to be "enough" done on that - like I don't think there's a limit.

That being said, my pushback was on the sweeping comments that we don't take our jobs seriously at all - to me that isn't a fair criticism. The "at all" implication is very broad. There's a legitimate critique that more could be done in general, hence my response elsewhere in this thread of posting proposals publicly to prompt discussion from the community at large.

infinitempg · 03-22-2021, 01:41 PM

(03-22-2021, 12:48 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote: In the words of Bex's favorite quarterback Aaron Rodgers - R - E - L - A - X

smh another former HO member coming to the defense of HO

**platanocat** · 03-22-2021, 01:48 PM

HO afraid of the people

shadyshoelace · 03-22-2021, 01:54 PM

(03-22-2021, 11:19 AM)infinitempg Wrote:
(03-22-2021, 11:19 AM)LimJahey Wrote:
(03-22-2021, 10:33 AM)iStegosauruz Wrote: 9. Raise the upper echelon of graphics pay rates. Make a 4/7 worth $2M (equivalent to 1189 words), 5/7 worth $3M (equivalent to 1723 words), 6/7 worth $4M (equivalent to 2283 words), and 7/7 worth $5M (equivalent to 2637 words). Given the fact that 7/7s are given so rarely anyways, they should be worth the time and effort put into them. This will also further incentivize new users to try and make graphics, as a decent amount of effort (4/7) makes them a good payday.

25 For - 8 Against
Rule Passes

As the gfx head it would have been nice to at least have a voice in this. Or have been notified about it.

That’s on me. I proposed this based on my article from a few weeks back, should have let you know.

This is absurd. What are job heads for if not to run the operations of their department? Graphics grading and payouts have changed several times in the past and to my knowledge have never been subject to a rule proposal vote from HO and GMs. There's the obvious issue that the GFX head was never consulted or even informed when this rule proposal was made, but the bigger issue is that this proposal was made through this channel in the first place. I'm graphics head in PBE and if people were able to completely bypass me to make changes to my department, I'd quit on the spot. I commend LimJahey for being more level-headed than I would've been.

Crodyman · 03-22-2021, 01:54 PM

GFX'ers getting a raise. Another victory for the 1%, eh @ThunderTitan82 lmaooo

slate · 03-22-2021, 01:59 PM

(03-22-2021, 01:22 PM)iStegosauruz Wrote: More could definitely be done to increase discussion on rules. I'm not sure that there is ever going to be "enough" done on that - like I don't think there's a limit.

That being said, my pushback was on the sweeping comments that we don't take our jobs seriously at all - to me that isn't a fair criticism. The "at all" implication is very broad. There's a legitimate critique that more could be done in general, hence my response elsewhere in this thread of posting proposals publicly to prompt discussion from the community at large.

I don't know which sweeping comments you are referring to, can you please link to an example in this thread where someone said that HO (or GMs / league owner / simmer) don't take their jobs seriously at all?

And once again I'm not necessarily saying that the process of soliciting input in the community is lacking (although it probably is). I'm saying that the league leadership channel in Management Discord where we discuss rules often (though not always!!!!) devolves into joking around and memeing and I think the process of discussing and voting on rules would be better if half of the people in that channel didn't feel a need to have it muted because of how annoying it can be to get notifications about meaningless discussion like that.

infinitempg · (This post was last modified: 03-22-2021, 02:02 PM by infinitempg.)

(03-22-2021, 01:54 PM)shadyshoelace Wrote: This is absurd. What are job heads for if not to run the operations of their department? Graphics grading and payouts have changed several times in the past and to my knowledge have never been subject to a rule proposal vote from HO and GMs. There's the obvious issue that the GFX head was never consulted or even informed when this rule proposal was made, but the bigger issue is that this proposal was made through this channel in the first place. I'm graphics head in PBE and if people were able to completely bypass me to make changes to my department, I'd quit on the spot. I commend LimJahey for being more level-headed than I would've been.

I just want to say I've spoken to LimJahey and apologized for it. I've also asked HO to not implement my proposed rule unless the GFX department is on board. That being said, probably wouldn't be the first time I've forced someone to quit over my mistakes

tMuse · (This post was last modified: 03-22-2021, 02:22 PM by tMuse.)

(03-22-2021, 01:16 PM)Thiath Wrote: Yeah I still don’t know what half these rules even mean. How do I break them?

Just tamper me by telling me you will let me win fantasy this season. that should breakt at least one of all the rules in the book no one reads

(03-22-2021, 12:23 PM)SDCore Wrote: This is my last comment, I did not ask to be made a scape goat or a meme, this was made after I left Head Office, for which I did a lot of work and thought I had some respect left. I'm sorry if I've made this worse, but waking up to be found out that a meme was made out of me, without my knowledge and then for people to be angry with me... was just a bit hilarious to me. Have a nice day ISFL.

Try this: before adding fuel to the fire, drink a coffee or give yourself some time to properly wake up. no one was mad at you untill you called us "salty bitches".
The shitfest had nothing to do with you in any way just because your name was in that rule.

And also, what made you think that your answers here would be in any way helpful, constructive or even funny?
It is disrespectful and people have been punished for less.

/rant2

woelkers · 03-22-2021, 03:08 PM

God I hate this league some days.

**37thchamber** · 03-22-2021, 04:10 PM

(03-22-2021, 12:07 PM)bex Wrote: As Steg has said, we are always willing to discuss rule proposal ideas and to utilize HO slots for community-sourced ideas. I couldn't tell you the last time HO used 100% of the proposal slots we're allotted. So blow up our DMs in the lead-up to next rule summit. Actually talk to us about what you want to see changed. If you're not willing to speak with us directly, cool. Utilize the league survey, utilize the forum suggestion box, talk to your GMs. GMs especially want to hear from their players on stuff like this.

There are options to have your voices heard in the current system. I implore you to use them.

I suspect the problem here is that by-and-large, members may still not feel entirely comfortable using those existing channels. For any number of reasons.

As I've said before, I think generally you guys are doing fine. I don't really have any specific issues with how things are going. But... I think if your view is "we have systems in place for this", and yet you realise they aren't being used, the first question should probably be "why not?" (there are parallels here with voter abstention but that's maybe a little too political for this situation, eh?)

It's a bit of a balancing act, I appreciate that. There isn't an easy solution. Already there are several options, and that's good. But I still think that at the moment, if we still have evidence of discontent alongside little to no use of those options, then there must be a reason those existing channels aren't being used. So why is it?

I think it's good that HO is directly saying right here in this thread "hey you can talk to us about this you know". However, I think perhaps from your perspective as HO, you're maybe not really aware of the nature of this disconnect (for lack of a better word; it seems like the complaints are coming from people who feel as though they are divorced from the decision-making process) and this is something to look into. Sometimes being in a position of authority (as loosely as this can be defined here) blinds you to the perspective of the other side, and that's not a personal failing, it's just how it is. You *will* have a different perspective of the situation, by necessity. It may serve HO to try and figure out why most people have chosen not to engage through these existing channels (a sort of focus group could work? I dunno; potentially use interns for this, they're maybe less detached from the overall user base by virtue of their temporary position? lots of possible explanations).

As a group, HO has been pretty good at responding to these things -- as evidenced by your attempts to encourage engagement in this very thread -- so I'm fairly sure you can come up with improvements on the current system when you have more information. It's just a matter of getting that information first, no?