Kyamprac Player Progression Head Removal

[SwankyPants31]

This is not your garden variety drama of uninformed and/or disgruntled league users criticizing HO just for fun. I have never seen so many level-headed and kind users that I respect disagree so strongly with a decision made by Head Office. Even many users who are former HO and often support or defend HO in these threads agree: this was a terrible and unexcusable decision. The fact that, as implied by Kya in her comment, there seems to be a personal vendetta involved makes me believe this is the single worst decision made by HO in my entire time here.

Yeah, it’s pretty horrid. Then you have intern excelsior in the other thread playing big dog and telling everyone to “put their reading comprehension caps on” like we’re a bunch of Neanderthals. I’d like to ask what HO is going to do about an intern insulting the entire user base, but I’m sure they’ll send him to his room without supper or some shit.

My sentiments exactly, on both these quotes. I've been in the league over a year now and typically don't participate in the drama threads, even when it's something involving me, but this is absolutely absurd.

[BOOM™]

Thanks HO. I needed something to read while on the can.

Punishment seems harsh though, plus who were the others in charge when this issue was also happening?

[tMuse]

We have reached the top 5 longest punishment threads in ISFL history.

Can we top Bex? Probably not at this point.

We just need a 2nd bachelorette

[TheRealMazatt]

Why does important information about what actually happened and what was done only ever come out after a near riot. This “data” that was collected should be available to the general user base. If HO really was “doing what is in our best interest” then prove it by showing us how delinquent Kya was at her job. I for one can say I’m not grading the offseason PT because all the questions about transparency will give me a laughing fit.

Full spreadsheet of data

Why does the league not separate this into claims being denied/accepted that are actually meaningful? It would definitely be worth the time it takes to see how many predictions were accepted before/after the sim started to be considered "late." That's the level of care and nuance that should go into determining the severity of the punishment. Even a cursory glance at the sheet shows that every 'illegal' claim is being treated the same way which is a massive, massive misstep on behalf of HO. Being able to see the processed claims that could arguably have an advantage gained would go a long way in coming to a decision that doesn't alienate your user base.

Sims start at 6:00PM for me, Whatamus, Lime, and Exilizer having their claims processed before that 6:00PM start time but after 5:45 is technically illegal, but treating those as somehow unfair or unjust to the league is completely blind to the role HO's should play in regards to supporting league health. For example, 3lewsers submitted 1 point task late in S20. They posted it 7 minutes before the sim even started. It is impossible to argue that there is advantage gained by what they did, but they are still going to lose TPE. That is mindless. Same thing goes for Point Tasks themselves, why should it be listed that Daybe loses 3 TPE because they posted their PT 3 minutes late? 

Having leniency on allowing users to claim TPE that is unimpacted by arbitrary times is a good thing for the league. This retributive form of punishment serves no one any good. No users are happy they lose TPE, no one is happy to see others do the work and not get rewarded because of three minutes, it's all just pointless. Genuinely, no one is better off now that these moves have been made. The league should only be removing TPE if they have definitive proof the delay in posting allowed them to view sims and gain TPE they othewise wouldn't have. Otherwise it is punishing users and their players because HO has a different standard of success relative to the people actually doing the jobs.

[gucci]

This is not your garden variety drama of uninformed and/or disgruntled league users criticizing HO just for fun. I have never seen so many level-headed and kind users that I respect disagree so strongly with a decision made by Head Office. Even many users who are former HO and often support or defend HO in these threads agree: this was a terrible and unexcusable decision. The fact that, as implied by Kya in her comment, there seems to be a personal vendetta involved makes me believe this is the single worst decision made by HO in my entire time here.

Yeah, it’s pretty horrid. Then you have intern excelsior in the other thread playing big dog and telling everyone to “put their reading comprehension caps on” like we’re a bunch of Neanderthals. I’d like to ask what HO is going to do about an intern insulting the entire user base, but I’m sure they’ll send him to his room without supper or some shit.

My sentiments exactly, on both these quotes. I've been in the league over a year now and typically don't participate in the drama threads, even when it's something involving me, but this is absolutely absurd.

Hi, DSFL intern here who has been in the league for over two years now. If you’re in the camp, that doesn’t think this should’ve been punished at all, then your opinion is pretty much invalid. Kya, although she pushed the PPT further into the future than anyone since Bigred, gave herself and a close friend TPE in the most sketchy of circumstances, this wasn’t released, but she then (whether knowingly or unknowingly) misrepresented her reasoning to HO when questioned. The question was not whether or not she should be punished, but the severity of said punishment.

Claims that Steg was involved in some conspiracy to destroy Kya are unfounded, not only did he not bring this issue to HO, but when it was all but forgotten after the Zamir snaffu, I (a lowly intern) was the one who pointed out that there was still 300+ fraudulent TPE circulating in the league. Thus resurrecting the conversation.

Do I think HO landed on the right punishment? Probably not, but that’s generally what appeals are for, we’ve seen them reduce a number of punishments to more reasonable terms over the years. I also think the original post for this failed to stress the correct reasons for the punishment that were basically Kya knowingly using her power to award TPE to give herself TPE she knew she hadn’t earned. Kya is a great user and someone who I will always appreciate for bringing Dallas its first title and as an individual, but as someone who has seen the evidence, didn’t have a vote (like excelsior), and has had very public disagreements with HO in the past I think this response has bordered on obnoxious.

What I can say is how mature Kya has been about accepting responsibility and it only reinforces my opinion that a probationary period may have been the correct course of action. But dragging Steg and/or excelsior into this conspiracy is completely uncalled for to the point where I felt compelled to comment.

[DarknessRising]

Why does the league not separate this into claims being denied/accepted that are actually meaningful? It would definitely be worth the time it takes to see how many predictions were accepted before/after the sim started to be considered "late." That's the level of care and nuance that should go into determining the severity of the punishment. Even a cursory glance at the sheet shows that every 'illegal' claim is being treated the same way which is a massive, massive misstep on behalf of HO. Being able to see the processed claims that could arguably have an advantage gained would go a long way in coming to a decision that doesn't alienate your user base.

Sims start at 6:00PM for me, Whatamus, Lime, and Exilizer having their claims processed before that 6:00PM start time but after 5:45 is technically illegal, but treating those as somehow unfair or unjust to the league is completely blind to the role HO's should play in regards to supporting league health. For example, 3lewsers submitted 1 point task late in S20. They posted it 7 minutes before the sim even started. It is impossible to argue that there is advantage gained by what they did, but they are still going to lose TPE. That is mindless. Same thing goes for Point Tasks themselves, why should it be listed that Daybe loses 3 TPE because they posted their PT 3 minutes late? 

Having leniency on allowing users to claim TPE that is unimpacted by arbitrary times is a good thing for the league. This retributive form of punishment serves no one any good. No users are happy they lose TPE, no one is happy to see others do the work and not get rewarded because of three minutes, it's all just pointless. Genuinely, no one is better off now that these moves have been made. The league should only be removing TPE if they have definitive proof the delay in posting allowed them to view sims and gain TPE they othewise wouldn't have. Otherwise it is punishing users and their players because HO has a different standard of success relative to the people actually doing the jobs.

So for me this is pretty simple to address and goes back to something I said either on this post or the other one. "A deadline is a deadline".

If you start saying "Deadliine is at X time" but then accept entries made up to 15 minutes after, then what is the point of that being the deadline or having that deadline exist? Or if you are going to accept up to 15 minutes after the deadline, you can make the argument that 16 minutes (1 minute into stream) doesn't do anything cause it has the count down timer, same as 17 minutes. Games take around 10 minutes to complete and you certainly can't tell who wins in the first quarter majority of the time, so does that mean the window could be extended to 20?

This all leads to a giant slipper slope of inconsistency and is ripe for issues being created. The best way to stop is to enforce a deadline, which is what has happened here. There is argument and support for moving the deadline to the start of sim time instead of having it 15 minutes before hand and there is merits to that, but ultimately, I say again, "a deadline is a deadline". Im sure there was people that saw they were late by a couple minutes and therefore didn't post anything cause they knew that they wouldn't, or rather shouldn't, get the TPE.

[OrbitingDeath]

This is just a horrible April Fools joke right?

[Ben]

When I was simmer the deadline to submit your team's DCs and strategies was still technically midnight by the rules but I had an unofficial policy of "if it's in by 8am when I start simming it will be accepted." Nobody fired me. Probably because they didn't want to try and find a replacement simmer.

tc has so many trophies he has a "view all" button, this is getting ridiculous

[Wombat]

severely disappointed by the volume of serious answers

ironically thought of a serious answer but discovered i didnt give a fuck

[SwankyPants31]

This is not your garden variety drama of uninformed and/or disgruntled league users criticizing HO just for fun. I have never seen so many level-headed and kind users that I respect disagree so strongly with a decision made by Head Office. Even many users who are former HO and often support or defend HO in these threads agree: this was a terrible and unexcusable decision. The fact that, as implied by Kya in her comment, there seems to be a personal vendetta involved makes me believe this is the single worst decision made by HO in my entire time here.

Yeah, it’s pretty horrid. Then you have intern excelsior in the other thread playing big dog and telling everyone to “put their reading comprehension caps on” like we’re a bunch of Neanderthals. I’d like to ask what HO is going to do about an intern insulting the entire user base, but I’m sure they’ll send him to his room without supper or some shit.

My sentiments exactly, on both these quotes. I've been in the league over a year now and typically don't participate in the drama threads, even when it's something involving me, but this is absolutely absurd.

Hi, DSFL intern here who has been in the league for over two years now. If you’re in the camp, that doesn’t think this should’ve been punished at all, then your opinion is pretty much invalid. Kya, although she pushed the PPT further into the future than anyone since Bigred, gave herself and a close friend TPE in the most sketchy of circumstances, this wasn’t released, but she then (whether knowingly or unknowingly) misrepresented her reasoning to HO when questioned. The question was not whether or not she should be punished, but the severity of said punishment.

Claims that Steg was involved in some conspiracy to destroy Kya are unfounded, not only did he not bring this issue to HO, but when it was all but forgotten after the Zamir snaffu, I (a lowly intern) was the one who pointed out that there was still 300+ fraudulent TPE circulating in the league. Thus resurrecting the conversation.

Do I think HO landed on the right punishment? Probably not, but that’s generally what appeals are for, we’ve seen them reduce a number of punishments to more reasonable terms over the years. I also think the original post for this failed to stress the correct reasons for the punishment that were basically Kya knowingly using her power to award TPE to give herself TPE she knew she hadn’t earned. Kya is a great user and someone who I will always appreciate for bringing Dallas its first title and as an individual, but as someone who has seen the evidence, didn’t have a vote (like excelsior), and has had very public disagreements with HO in the past I think this response has bordered on obnoxious.

What I can say is how mature Kya has been about accepting responsibility and it only reinforces my opinion that a probationary period may have been the correct course of action. But dragging Steg and/or excelsior into this conspiracy is completely uncalled for to the point where I felt compelled to comment.

I don't know where in my response, or any of the people in the quoted thread you got the impression that we don't think she should have been punished at all. I can't speak for Mith or Stennett obviously, but I won't deny she messed up and corrective action needed to happen. Like you said, it was a question of not if, but how severely she needed to be punished, and I agree with that. I don't necessarily agree with the severity, like you I think a probationary period would have sufficed, but if that were my only issue with what has gone on tonight I wouldn't be posting here.

What has me truly unhappy is that now we have been told by two separate HO interns that we have poor reading comprehension and that our opinions are "pretty much invalid". This is a fucking awful look for leadership in my opinion.

I'm not going to speak on the Steg stuff because I don't know anything about it, and I'm not going to speculate. On that note, I'm not trying to drag excelsior into any "conspiracy" other than point out that his post was inflammatory, unnecessary, and frankly extremely rude.