Kyamprac Player Progression Head Removal

[LB3737]

Damn they beat my 10 pages

[SamTwoSix]

investigate 3/11

[MrStennett]

Being that I’ve been at the front of the mob with my pitchfork, I’d just like to say a few things here:

1. I appreciate the responses from Darkness and Swanty. These are very solid and helpful response and I’d like to acknowledge that this is how communication between HO and the general users should be.

2. In tandem with my first point, it is incredibly dismaying that this further clarification only ever seems to happen under the threat of angry users breaking down the gates to the palace, so to speak. For a group that says they are concerned with transparency, the fact that you all basically need need to be threatened to be fully transparent is just sad and tiring.

3. I believe the general consensus here is that it makes since that Kya was punished, but it seems as though she’s being targeted for two instances that are “questionable” involving about 5 TPE. I would sincerely hope that she would be smart enough to take more TPE for herself and her friends if she really wanted to cheat. It’s just pure common sense. You can justify voting for her removal however you want, but it’s a massive stretch any way you look at it. Past HO members have said so. Hell, people who usually can’t stand each other have come together in this post to agree how wrong this is.

I think the takeaway here comes to me via Swanty’s post where he states that HO will need to regain the trust of users. I feel like the clear answer here is to remember what the point of this community is. It’s for fun. It’s to make friends. Not to take ourselves over seriously and ostracize community members.

[TheRealMazatt]

Why does the league not separate this into claims being denied/accepted that are actually meaningful? It would definitely be worth the time it takes to see how many predictions were accepted before/after the sim started to be considered "late." That's the level of care and nuance that should go into determining the severity of the punishment. Even a cursory glance at the sheet shows that every 'illegal' claim is being treated the same way which is a massive, massive misstep on behalf of HO. Being able to see the processed claims that could arguably have an advantage gained would go a long way in coming to a decision that doesn't alienate your user base.

Sims start at 6:00PM for me, Whatamus, Lime, and Exilizer having their claims processed before that 6:00PM start time but after 5:45 is technically illegal, but treating those as somehow unfair or unjust to the league is completely blind to the role HO's should play in regards to supporting league health. For example, 3lewsers submitted 1 point task late in S20. They posted it 7 minutes before the sim even started. It is impossible to argue that there is advantage gained by what they did, but they are still going to lose TPE. That is mindless. Same thing goes for Point Tasks themselves, why should it be listed that Daybe loses 3 TPE because they posted their PT 3 minutes late? 

Having leniency on allowing users to claim TPE that is unimpacted by arbitrary times is a good thing for the league. This retributive form of punishment serves no one any good. No users are happy they lose TPE, no one is happy to see others do the work and not get rewarded because of three minutes, it's all just pointless. Genuinely, no one is better off now that these moves have been made. The league should only be removing TPE if they have definitive proof the delay in posting allowed them to view sims and gain TPE they othewise wouldn't have. Otherwise it is punishing users and their players because HO has a different standard of success relative to the people actually doing the jobs.

So for me this is pretty simple to address and goes back to something I said either on this post or the other one. "A deadline is a deadline".

If you start saying "Deadliine is at X time" but then accept entries made up to 15 minutes after, then what is the point of that being the deadline or having that deadline exist? Or if you are going to accept up to 15 minutes after the deadline, you can make the argument that 16 minutes (1 minute into stream) doesn't do anything cause it has the count down timer, same as 17 minutes. Games take around 10 minutes to complete and you certainly can't tell who wins in the first quarter majority of the time, so does that mean the window could be extended to 20?

This all leads to a giant slipper slope of inconsistency and is ripe for issues being created. The best way to stop is to enforce a deadline, which is what has happened here. There is argument and support for moving the deadline to the start of sim time instead of having it 15 minutes before hand and there is merits to that, but ultimately, I say again, "a deadline is a deadline". Im sure there was people that saw they were late by a couple minutes and therefore didn't post anything cause they knew that they wouldn't, or rather shouldn't, get the TPE.

This mention of the slippery slope is questionable to me when HO are the ones who have the discretion, and power to prevent it from going forward. A deadline is a deadline, but upholding that to the very minute is an anti-player move as people who have rightfully preformed tasks and earned TPE have had it taken away. Not every standard followed has to be taken as gospel. I fail to see how having an unspoken rule of "if someone posts a prediction between 15-0 minutes prior to the sim, we allow the claim but will DM/inform them that they should avoid that in the future," doesn't serve the same purpose without removing TPE.

And that's just for predictions. When it comes to PTs themselves is there really any reason beyond "we decided it" that 11:59 on sunday is the cut-off? So in that case, why should players be punished via taking away TPE because the claim was up late? You can argue the slippery slope of when the PT head closes the thread or what not, but that does not take away from the fact that users have done the work necessary to earn TPE but an arbitrary timeline has taken it away.

The end of it all is the fact that the moves being made here are anti-player. The players want to do work and expect to be compensated, PT's being accepted slightly late is pro-player and hurts nobody. Being retributive and taking away TPE is starkly anti-player and serves benefit to nobody. Head Office, as an official organization that it wants to be viewed as, can't be forgetting the entire purpose of the decisions they want to make. The main role of HO is to support and make decisions as a reflection of the userbase, and to support the health of the league. The userbase does not want to see TPE taken away, and in doing so it hurts the health of the league. That should hold more weight than a slippery slope.

[White Cornerback]

@Daybe is a cumqueen

[Z-Whiz]

particularly when a member of head office with a known bias refused to recuse themselves and went so far as to provide the majority of the data used in the decision.

You could argue that the "head" of this investigation has just as much of a bias or preference against Kya as Kya does for approving the TPE in her and Rotz predictions. If Kya should have known better and she's only the head of a department, then someone who is part of the department that runs the entire league certainly should have known better.

It may be a reach (not that Kya's firing wasn't), but if Kya is losing her job for showing bias and taking advantage of her position (whether willfully or accidentally), then Steg should be losing his job for not abstaining from the vote. I don't see how the two situations are different. Both parties were in charge of their respective situations, both have a bias either for/against the parties involved, and both "should have known better".

To be clear, I do not believe either should lose their job. I do not think either did this with malicious intent. I'm simply making this comparison to show how out of wack the Kya ruling is.

[Tonzy]

I want to start of this message by apologizing for any feathers I may ruffle during the course of what I am about to say, some individuals may inadvertently feel like they are the subject of this discussion but all I can really say to that is, that if the shoe fits, well…wear it.

Now to get started with what I really wanted to say. I joined this league approximately one in-real-life year ago. I was part of the S23 DSFL class and am a member of the S24 ISFL class. Over the course of my time in this league, I like to think that I have managed to get along with most people that I have interacted with, and I truly hope that I have done my best to help better the league in whatever way is possible, whether that be financial donations, taking on league jobs, communicating with new users, or simply just trying to be a friendly an understanding ear to anyone who needs it. As my time in the league has grown longer, I have become more and more involved with the inner workings of the league and in return have had less and less fun throughout that time. You see, there is a problem that exists within this league and it would be in bad taste for me to generically label this problem as HO, because unfortunately, that really does not speak to the heart of the problem. The problem which I am about to speak of lies much deeper than a fake governing body, it goes into what this league is really all about. It is a big idea to try to grasp I know, but I will do my best to present my concerns as eloquently as I can.

What is HO, or what should it be, may actually be the better question to ask right now. Obviously, everything that follows is my own personal opinion but I hope that it is an opinion shared by the vast majority of users in this league. 

Fun, it is small word, but it is also an important word that is going to carry a ton of weight throughout this discussion of HO’s role in this league. Now it might sound overly simplified to put it this way, but HO truly only has one job in this league, and that is to protect and engage the community in a way that makes this league more fun for EVERYONE. Everyone you say? Yes, everyone. Our community consists of 100s of users from all walks of life who are either here because they love football, or because they love being part of a community. These are the only two types of people that join this league and these are the people that our HO is designed to protect.

Sadly, our HO has forgotten their true purpose within this league, they have taken their position of service and manipulated it into a position of power. This is not an elected group of individuals that the users collectively chose to lead this league, instead it is a group of hand-picked individuals that have no check in place for their seemingly unlimited power. This HO does not spend their time protecting the users of this league but instead spends their time fining new users for tampering because they say they miss playing with one of their friends; this HO spends their time punishing dedicated users for accidently leaking one pick in a draft seasons ago; this HO spends their time fining GMs because a player wants to come back and play for a team he has always been apart of; this HO spends their time allowing a member with a personal vendetta against a user to head up an investigation, and label it as malicious misconduct when it has been an established practice dating back approximately two years.
Does this sound like an entity that is truly protecting this community and the fun that this league is supposed to provide? Or does this sound like an entity that has allowed its power to go to its head? Why are there so many controversies in this league? Why is every decision come to by HO resisted? Is it really because people dislike HO? No, its because people have seen what HO has become and they want their league back. Serious thought needs to be given going forward as to what the purpose of this league is. Is this league for fun or is it a job? Because if it is for fun, when are we going to get back to letting it be fun?

It saddens me that in this league, HO spends more time investigating and punishing than they do actually engaging with the user base and seeing what they can do to better improve the league experience. HO always seems to keep itself at an arms distance from the rest of the league and then swoop in when it is the appropriate time to strike a user down. Why is this group of “leaders” so distant from the rest of us? Why do we have to argue for transparency? What could HO possibly be discussing that is so important in a sim-football league that it must be kept from the eyes of the users? Why does HO treat their job as a chore and continually try to distance themselves from things like awards instead of actively engaging in them and doing their best to create an experience that everyone enjoys? Is it simply because they hate their job and cannot be bothered? If so then what are you still doing in the position? If you love your position then you have to love the users in this league. Stop loving what you want this league to be and start loving it for what it actually is. Start seriously asking yourself why you want to be in the position you are in, what makes you the best person for this job? Because if you think you are the best person for the job because you are the smartest guy in the room or because all your ideas are better than everyone else’s then you need to stop, remove yourself from the position, and let someone who loves the users of this league take your spot.

All I ask is that each and everyone of you think about where this league currently is and where you would like it to be, and ask yourself one simple question, “Why can’t it be the way that I want it to be?” This league is a community of outstanding people, people that I love getting to spend time with on a daily basis and people that I truly care about. This community has carried me through some hard times and it is honestly hard for me to imagine not getting to hang out with each of you on a daily basis. That is why I poured myself into this league over the past year, I did it for all of you, not for my own personal gain but for the betterment of this league. Was I perfect, no absolutely not, but I loved my work and I loved the people I worked with and worked for. Where is that mentality from HO members? Please give me more of that.

In conclusion, I just want to be the first to officially announce my vote of no confidence in the current regime that occupies HO. Changes are needed and it is my hope that we don’t lose anymore users that love this league for the sake of the power that some wish so desperately to hold on to.

[Fordhammer]

 I'm told that apparently there was an "aha" or "gotcha" moment when this explanation was shared with the rest of HO. Someone trolled back through a channel in the Austin server where we share pictures of beer together in order to find a picture of Kyamprac with a beer in hand and our dog in the background. Let me say that again, a picture of our dog was used to condemn Kyamprac for her actions. As much as some of you want to be FBI special investigators, your evidence is farcical at best. After Kyamprac posited the potential excuse of being at work, which let's also state that it's a pandemic and we work from home where this picture was taken after hours, she followed it up with "but I'm not actually sure. I have no excuse." It's asinine to believe that Kyamprac would have lied to you over this instance when it is clear that she likely did not remember the incident at all.

Wasn't really planning on commenting this, but this is one of the craziest things I have ever read on this site lol. Says a lot about the motives of the people behind the investigation, imo.

[ZootTX]

#JusticeforMurphy

[tMuse]

In conclusion, I just want to be the first to officially announce my vote of no confidence in the current regime that occupies HO. Changes are needed and it is my hope that we don’t lose anymore users that love this league for the sake of the power that some wish so desperately to hold on to.

Count me in