YTB and Zamir Multi Punishment

[YoungTB]

During this timeframe, YoungTB also logged into the forum multiple times and also replied to a post on 6/18/21 making both accounts active. An interview was conducted with YoungTB during which they admitted to creating the new account and player clearly breaching the rules in regards to what constitutes being active and a multi.

Btw, my player on YoungTB was retired months ago, and the only instance of "meaningful activity" on this account was commenting on how bad HO handled the original Faded punishment, lol. 

But I won't be back. This league stopped being fun years ago, I don't know why I still try. Thanks for all the memories though.

[Oles]

During this timeframe, YoungTB also logged into the forum multiple times and also replied to a post on 6/18/21 making both accounts active. An interview was conducted with YoungTB during which they admitted to creating the new account and player clearly breaching the rules in regards to what constitutes being active and a multi.

Btw, my player on YoungTB was retired months ago, and the only instance of "meaningful activity" on this account was commenting on how bad HO handled the original Faded punishment, lol. 

But I won't be back. This league stopped being fun years ago, I don't know why I still try. Thanks for all the memories though.

Yeah I really don't get this, you had no player on YoungTB account, how can they say that this is multi-ing? Having a second account absolutely should not be a bannable offense if there is no player on said account, you are not gaining an advantage by having two accounts if one is not part of any team in any way.

[infinitempg]

Obviously good riddance to zamir, but I can't really agree with punishing YTB here. Meaningful activity is obviously a bit nebulous here, but I don't think shitposting on a punishment thread should really count there. We have plenty of old, very clearly IA users pop in for those and we don't suddenly call that an active user. Additionally, he only has 1 active player and thus does that really have any impact on the league? Multi rules exist to prevent someone from having multiple earning players and thus cheating the game. I don't think creating a new account and new player while also rendering the old account fully retired and out of the league is a bad thing and I don't think it's worth a punishment. I don't think wanting a "new and fresh" experience of the league, where no one knows who you are is a bad thing for the league, and it can definitely be a positive thing for the user. Claiming rookie tasks is an interesting debacle since that is an "advantage" - but you also lose out on your old bank account. Since you can't go more than 2M in the red regardless, I don't know if creating a new user to get out of bankruptcy is even worth it - and thus not an advantage. Regardless, YTB had nearly $24M in his account that he was voluntarily forfeiting.

I guess the TLDR of my opinion is that I don't think YTB should be punished for wanting a fresh start. He isn't cheating the system by having multiple players in the league, and I don't really think being able to claim rookie tasks is that much of a benefit. The league is a "player's league", and if it's good for the user's experience of the league to phoenix then I think they should be able to.

[BRNXB0MBERS]

oh, zamir

[Raven]

Going to have to agree with the previous posts. Very weird to punish a user for multi'ing while they did not possess two active players and the only activity on the original account was to comment about a punishment they had received.

Sorry HO, but I think this a swing and a miss.

[Swanty]

Obviously good riddance to zamir, but I can't really agree with punishing YTB here. Meaningful activity is obviously a bit nebulous here, but I don't think shitposting on a punishment thread should really count there. We have plenty of old, very clearly IA users pop in for those and we don't suddenly call that an active user. Additionally, he only has 1 active player and thus does that really have any impact on the league? Multi rules exist to prevent someone from having multiple earning players and thus cheating the game. I don't think creating a new account and new player while also rendering the old account fully retired and out of the league is a bad thing and I don't think it's worth a punishment. I don't think wanting a "new and fresh" experience of the league, where no one knows who you are is a bad thing for the league, and it can definitely be a positive thing for the user. Claiming rookie tasks is an interesting debacle since that is an "advantage" - but you also lose out on your old bank account. Since you can't go more than 2M in the red regardless, I don't know if creating a new user to get out of bankruptcy is even worth it - and thus not an advantage. Regardless, YTB had nearly $24M in his account that he was voluntarily forfeiting.

I guess the TLDR of my opinion is that I don't think YTB should be punished for wanting a fresh start. He isn't cheating the system by having multiple players in the league, and I don't really think being able to claim rookie tasks is that much of a benefit. The league is a "player's league", and if it's good for the user's experience of the league to phoenix then I think they should be able to.

I definitely understand why certain users would want a fresh start. To be free of expectations, both positive and negative, that they've built up for themselves previously.

That said, I think there's quite a few negatives that go along with hiding your identity in this way.

Firstly, we have rookie tasks that only brand new users can claim. As you mentioned, you would forfeit your bank by doing this, but you can make this back up. You can't make back up rookie TPE if you're not eligible for it.

Secondly, knowing how everything works means they'll come out of the blocks quicker and ISFL scouts will think that this brand new rookie has gotten to grips with things far quicker than others. The true rookies are the ones that pay for this by comparison. Just look at Art and Excelsior who both denied true rookies an MDM award.

Thirdly, it wastes a lot of people's time when the new user, keeping up the act of being brand new to the league, asks a ton of questions that they already know the answers to, taking away valuable RM and GM time from people who genuinely need help.

Lastly and most importantly, it gives users a free pass to act how they like, knowing that if they ever piss people off, they can just wipe the slate clean and start again. There would be no consequences to doing something bad. I have such respect for those users who have made mistakes in the past, owned up to them and rebuilt their image. I think it cheapens the experience for users who own their mistakes and try to be better if we were to allow others a free avenue to start afresh every time they mess up.

I completely get why someone would want to do it, but there are other, perhaps less attractive options for them, like owning up to their past mistakes and being honest with the league.

[TeyonSchavari]

Obviously good riddance to zamir, but I can't really agree with punishing YTB here. Meaningful activity is obviously a bit nebulous here, but I don't think shitposting on a punishment thread should really count there. We have plenty of old, very clearly IA users pop in for those and we don't suddenly call that an active user. Additionally, he only has 1 active player and thus does that really have any impact on the league? Multi rules exist to prevent someone from having multiple earning players and thus cheating the game. I don't think creating a new account and new player while also rendering the old account fully retired and out of the league is a bad thing and I don't think it's worth a punishment. I don't think wanting a "new and fresh" experience of the league, where no one knows who you are is a bad thing for the league, and it can definitely be a positive thing for the user. Claiming rookie tasks is an interesting debacle since that is an "advantage" - but you also lose out on your old bank account. Since you can't go more than 2M in the red regardless, I don't know if creating a new user to get out of bankruptcy is even worth it - and thus not an advantage. Regardless, YTB had nearly $24M in his account that he was voluntarily forfeiting.

I guess the TLDR of my opinion is that I don't think YTB should be punished for wanting a fresh start. He isn't cheating the system by having multiple players in the league, and I don't really think being able to claim rookie tasks is that much of a benefit. The league is a "player's league", and if it's good for the user's experience of the league to phoenix then I think they should be able to.

I definitely understand why certain users would want a fresh start. To be free of expectations, both positive and negative, that they've built up for themselves previously.

That said, I think there's quite a few negatives that go along with hiding your identity in this way.

Firstly, we have rookie tasks that only brand new users can claim. As you mentioned, you would forfeit your bank by doing this, but you can make this back up. You can't make back up rookie TPE if you're not eligible for it.

Secondly, knowing how everything works means they'll come out of the blocks quicker and ISFL scouts will think that this brand new rookie has gotten to grips with things far quicker than others. The true rookies are the ones that pay for this by comparison. Just look at Art and Excelsior who both denied true rookies an MDM award.

Thirdly, it wastes a lot of people's time when the new user, keeping up the act of being brand new to the league, asks a ton of questions that they already know the answers to, taking away valuable RM and GM time from people who genuinely need help.

Lastly and most importantly, it gives users a free pass to act how they like, knowing that if they ever piss people off, they can just wipe the slate clean and start again. There would be no consequences to doing something bad. I have such respect for those users who have made mistakes in the past, owned up to them and rebuilt their image. I think it cheapens the experience for users who own their mistakes and try to be better if we were to allow others a free avenue to start afresh every time they mess up.

I completely get why someone would want to do it, but there are other, perhaps less attractive options for them, like owning up to their past mistakes and being honest with the league.

This is exactly why I agree that there needed to be punishment. Creating a second account and acting brand new isn't harmless. That said it is a unique case. I hadn't realized initially that TB didn't currently have a player, so I could see an argument could be made for a reduced punishment, but after the recent excelsior and art cases as swanty mentioned I can see why HO would be less sympathetic

[DatSmolBoi]

"Retrospace111 is already permanently banned."

He's gonna do it again lmao

[Air Crou]

Obviously good riddance to zamir, but I can't really agree with punishing YTB here. Meaningful activity is obviously a bit nebulous here, but I don't think shitposting on a punishment thread should really count there. We have plenty of old, very clearly IA users pop in for those and we don't suddenly call that an active user. Additionally, he only has 1 active player and thus does that really have any impact on the league? Multi rules exist to prevent someone from having multiple earning players and thus cheating the game. I don't think creating a new account and new player while also rendering the old account fully retired and out of the league is a bad thing and I don't think it's worth a punishment. I don't think wanting a "new and fresh" experience of the league, where no one knows who you are is a bad thing for the league, and it can definitely be a positive thing for the user. Claiming rookie tasks is an interesting debacle since that is an "advantage" - but you also lose out on your old bank account. Since you can't go more than 2M in the red regardless, I don't know if creating a new user to get out of bankruptcy is even worth it - and thus not an advantage. Regardless, YTB had nearly $24M in his account that he was voluntarily forfeiting.

I guess the TLDR of my opinion is that I don't think YTB should be punished for wanting a fresh start. He isn't cheating the system by having multiple players in the league, and I don't really think being able to claim rookie tasks is that much of a benefit. The league is a "player's league", and if it's good for the user's experience of the league to phoenix then I think they should be able to.

I definitely understand why certain users would want a fresh start. To be free of expectations, both positive and negative, that they've built up for themselves previously.

That said, I think there's quite a few negatives that go along with hiding your identity in this way.

Firstly, we have rookie tasks that only brand new users can claim. As you mentioned, you would forfeit your bank by doing this, but you can make this back up. You can't make back up rookie TPE if you're not eligible for it.

Secondly, knowing how everything works means they'll come out of the blocks quicker and ISFL scouts will think that this brand new rookie has gotten to grips with things far quicker than others. The true rookies are the ones that pay for this by comparison. Just look at Art and Excelsior who both denied true rookies an MDM award.

Thirdly, it wastes a lot of people's time when the new user, keeping up the act of being brand new to the league, asks a ton of questions that they already know the answers to, taking away valuable RM and GM time from people who genuinely need help.

Lastly and most importantly, it gives users a free pass to act how they like, knowing that if they ever piss people off, they can just wipe the slate clean and start again. There would be no consequences to doing something bad. I have such respect for those users who have made mistakes in the past, owned up to them and rebuilt their image. I think it cheapens the experience for users who own their mistakes and try to be better if we were to allow others a free avenue to start afresh every time they mess up.

I completely get why someone would want to do it, but there are other, perhaps less attractive options for them, like owning up to their past mistakes and being honest with the league.

Uh, does that mean I should be banned as well? I was up to speed right out of the gate, as a fresh user. YTB did nothing wrong, except for taking the easy way out. But taking the easy way out lands you HO internships and MDMs, just because you have a clean slate. Now watch Zamir coming back with a third account and becoming a commissioner.

[iseedoug]

People always hatin on my boy YTB.