*The TE position has a problem

[Sweetwater]

I guess I don't understand the problem. We all knew TEs are poor in this sim, as much was stated well before the S1 draft even started (http://nsfl.jcink.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=245).

If you want to wait for archetype changes and such, sure, go ahead and change speed caps. But I'm the type to find a way right now, and to me the obvious solution is to play a WR as a TE (height doesn't really matter in the sim for that).

If that's not your style, well, wait and see what happens I suppose.

See, I hadn't seen that post, so if people knew that coming in then there isn't an issue. I have no problem using a current solution to get a desired outcome. I assumed since weight made an impact that height would as well.

If the sim works as you say it does, then my problem lies with the sim and not the archetypes (though I do believe TEs deserve a speed increase). I honestly don't know why I care about this so much, but I guess I just do. I think my biggest issue has been the idea that LBs are universally faster than vertical TEs, despite all the data showing otherwise.

Regardless, seeing as we can only work within the system, I guess I should contact the developer about my issues with TE usage.

[Sweetwater]

I think the reason I would say I'm against it is it's a bit of a slippery slope for archetype changes. If we give tight ends more speed because of realism, then are defensive ends going to want more speed too? Myles Garrett is super fast. I guess, based on what we're seeing with the sim and tight ends, what does it do for us by raising the speed cap?

In terms of the tight ends you listed all three of those guys would fit the physical build of the red zone threat wide receiver in the sim. The only NFL player I think you could argue you couldn't build in the sim physically is Jimmy Graham, his speed and size isn't really available to you. Gronk isn't insanely fast and I think he fits into the regular tight end archetypes we have.

I can understand where you're coming from, and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't DEs already have a higher speed than the OLine? That would make sense. And, if you want to bring Garrett into this, using the numbers we have available to us, he's actually right around where the 'average' elite DE would be in terms of speed. His biggest factor in his performance is his ability to bend, and his insane burst off the line. In NFL terms, he's not fast, he's quick.

But TEs who are more toward the receiving end of the TE spectrum are usually on par with the speed of LBs, yet have a significantly lower speed. I just think it's somewhat weird to have them lower. Your stats show that raising the speed to 90 makes them have seasons similar to the average receiving TE in the NFL, so that seems like a fair thing to do. It might not make a difference now, but when we start getting maxed out player is very well could be the difference between a player putting up solid numbers and moving the chains, and someone getting demoralized from lack of use/performance and leaving the league.

If we increase one stat for one archetype for one position based on imperical, measurable evidence, then we can prevent a slippery slope by requiring measurable evidence for any other requested stat changes. Though I would still be for testing changes for any stats to ensure balance in the sim, and proactively testing existing archetypes to ensure balance.

[Sweetwater]

Honestly @ErMurazor @timeconsumer I'd love to get in a discord chat with you guys and talk things through. I think it would help me better understand the sim and your viewpoints on stat changes. And I'd hope it would help you do the same with me. Plus it would allow us to present our thoughts in real time instead of having to go line by line through longer posts.

Let me know if either of you would be up for it.

[timeconsumer]

Honestly @ErMurazor @timeconsumer I'd love to get in a discord chat with you guys and talk things through. I think it would help me better understand the sim and your viewpoints on stat changes. And I'd hope it would help you do the same with me. Plus it would allow us to present our thoughts in real time instead of having to go line by line through longer posts.

Let me know if either of you would be up for it.

I'm always game to discuss the intricacies of the sim, you can find me on the NSFL discord under timeconsumer.

[ErMurazor]

I can understand where you're coming from, and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't DEs already have a higher speed than the OLine? That would make sense. And, if you want to bring Garrett into this, using the numbers we have available to us, he's actually right around where the 'average' elite DE would be in terms of speed. His biggest factor in his performance is his ability to bend, and his insane burst off the line. In NFL terms, he's not fast, he's quick.

But TEs who are more toward the receiving end of the TE spectrum are usually on par with the speed of LBs, yet have a significantly lower speed. I just think it's somewhat weird to have them lower. Your stats show that raising the speed to 90 makes them have seasons similar to the average receiving TE in the NFL, so that seems like a fair thing to do. It might not make a difference now, but when we start getting maxed out player is very well could be the difference between a player putting up solid numbers and moving the chains, and someone getting demoralized from lack of use/performance and leaving the league.

If we increase one stat for one archetype for one position based on imperical, measurable evidence, then we can prevent a slippery slope by requiring measurable evidence for any other requested stat changes. Though I would still be for testing changes for any stats to ensure balance in the sim, and proactively testing existing archetypes to ensure balance.

I was speaking more to the argument that was being used that tight ends should have this speed because X position is faster than X position. A lot of the freak DEs are faster than TEs. Somebody proposed assigning speed levels to different 40 times. That could be an interesting approach. I suppose. I'm on discord pretty often too. You can PM me there anytime.