*Gfx grading

[ThunderTitan82]

I would love to be able to have user-to-user transactions/commissions for signatures/schedules etcetera.
Unfortunately that system has been used before in different leagues and it always ends up being abused.

Rich players buying some shitty's player sig overpriced to make sure they can continue to do their training. 
So hope you have a nice idea how that can be avoided, as it would be a nice addition to have.

I would love to be able to have user-to-user transactions/commissions for signatures/schedules etcetera.
Unfortunately that system has been used before in different leagues and it always ends up being abused.

Rich players buying some shitty's player sig overpriced to make sure they can continue to do their training. 
So hope you have a nice idea how that can be avoided, as it would be a nice addition to have.

I think it could be done in a way that’s not abused, could set a minimum or maximum allowed that might stop huuuge payouts and people emptying bank accounts haha. Myself I would for sure help out newer players by buying a graphic for a good amount, then again I wouldn’t go overboard so that’s the key I guess not dumping a 100 mil into a sig just to give somebody the money lmao

Hope they come up with something, as for example yesterday I was asked to create a schedule for some other team. But I feel the current scale for it, is not really worth the time it would take. But if someone would give like 2M ,  it would already be more worth the effort and I might have taken it on.

Curious to see where this idea goes.

A cost cap would most likely be the best way to curb any sort of money transfer nonsense. Though you'd also likely need to put a transaction limit on it so someone doesn't buy 100 mediocre sigs at 3m a pop or whatever (extreme example)

I was thinking that too, like somehow limit it to where you can only get one a week from each creator or something you can still give away your money buying gfx but it would have to be from different people

[caltroit_red_flames]

I have a lot of thoughts on this and I'll post them later when I get a chance, but first and foremost HO needs to be willing to come to the table on P2P transactions. They weren't willing to do that when I started as graphics head and they weren't willing to when I was about to leave. Assuming that hasn't changed, you need to take this up with them before anyone else.

[Cheech65]

Having made a decent amount of graphics myself, the inconsistency in grading can be a pain. All the sigs I've made have all been in the same style and of the same quality (IMO), but even in the same post I get differing grades. Perhaps I just don't understand the rubric, but I think that P2P commissioned work is a great alternative. If we are to work within the current system and make improvements, I think that a clearly defined rubric, where certain features pay out individually at certain rates, would help clear up some confusion. For instance, if a graphic has a number swap, it could pay out $250,000 on its own, while a jersey swap could pay $1,000,000. Perhaps some level of interpretation can be included within the different categories, like a scale of 1-3 to determine the quality of the feature included. And graders can be given the option to give a bonus, if the GFX entry meets that traditional 7/7 standard. Taking away the subjectivity of grading is impossible, and honestly unnecessary. I don't think that the grading process is inherently broken, but I think that clearer definition of what should be included in a high-paying graphic can be beneficial both the to creators who put in hours of work, and the graders who never seem to be on the same page.

[Nokazoa]

Since you want dialogue I'll give my thoughts.

Overall: p2p transactions should happen. I have been a huge proponent of this for a while. Even when I was head. Its an HO issue. SHL does it ok. A hard cap of 4m.

That said, a lot of people come here with "my shit doesn't stink mentality" and then blame the graders. When I was the head I would see a lack of self-reflection a lot of the time. I tell someone its too busy and elements get lost and I'm suddenly someone who doesn't get things. Yes, there are different styles and yes some styles will show a lot of technical skill. I think the main flaws with the current system is they are too giving with high grades and like most graders, don't reference the rubric enough. The head would ideally fix any issues but that's a lot on one man. I'm a crotchety old guy ig. "You give too much money and don't look at the rubric enough to justify said grades"

As I read this back, it does come off like I'm blaming the gfx creators and not the system. I think its both. There's a lot of ego and personal involvement when you make something so when someone says it's not as good as you think it is, it hurts your pride. I'm guilty of this. I think what's missing is communication. People like to know why they received the grade they received but the time it takes to write that out hurts the whole system and you get the issues we had when I was head of a 5 page backlog. But this means that you can't really improve.

So lets say I got a 3/7 and get no feedback. I could look at other submission threads, but since they also have no feedback I may have no idea why they got higher than me bc I don't have the eye for it yet. Maybe I look at the rubric? Well, the rubric is written to be somewhat vague so grading is easier so that's not helpful. Maybe I try to message the grader or grading head? Well, they have no responsibility to me to answer or even give a satisfying answer. Maybe they are busy and can't reply any time soon. What then? Guess I'll just do the same thing of something. So I'm probably left frustrated at the end of the day. A feeling that would happen regardless of if the grade was justified. How can I get better in a vacuum? Should we all just go over the Behance and figure out stuff? Should I go take a college class for fake sim dollars?

So what do we do? I don't know. Im just commenting bc I like Jango for some reason. Even if I think he hates me. Not enough to give answers or even make this coherent. Im really not addressing what Jango brings up bc I agree with him. Im more saying yall are babies (a joke I did in the dotts server. I don't think anyone is actually a baby) but the system isn't helping you "grow"

[.simo]

I would love to be able to have user-to-user transactions/commissions for signatures/schedules etcetera.
Unfortunately that system has been used before in different leagues and it always ends up being abused.

Rich players buying some shitty's player sig overpriced to make sure they can continue to do their training. 
So hope you have a nice idea how that can be avoided, as it would be a nice addition to have.

I'm going back to the PBE here but I think they solve this problem. In general any one item can only cost up to 5 million. Also you can only pay a team mate once per season to a max of 3 million. So I could get a few things from different team mates but this means it's not really possible for GMs to funnel heaps on money to a new player. It works well so something like that would work here maybe just change what the caps are to suit our economy.

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Also just adding my voice to say that P2P is a better system and I am on the side that would prefer this.

[OrbitingDeath]

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Also just adding my voice to say that P2P is a better system and I am on the side that would prefer this.

When you say this, wouldn't it be a situation where both exist? That you either choose to create something and have it graded (like I have my sig shop) and that you would have a side option for bigger/more advanced stuff where you can be commissioned to do something?


I would mostly like a p2p scenario for stuff I feel is to much work for the normal scale, but for the rest i would prefer it as is, so you can actually make the new people happy with sigs without having to charge em for it (and no, charity and not being paid is not really an option )

[caltroit_red_flames]

Maybe I try to message the grader or grading head? Well, they have no responsibility to me to answer or even give a satisfying answer. 

I don't know how things are run now but I made it clear that it's the responsibility of graders to be willing to help out in the graphics discord and there were any issues they could refer the person to me.

I required all of the graders to put this at the bottom of the grades: If you have questions about your grade you can message myself or @[caltroit_red_flames], or submit your submission for arbitration here: http://nsfl.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=21685

Looks like Lim has continued that based on the one grade that I checked.

[Nokazoa]

Maybe I try to message the grader or grading head? Well, they have no responsibility to me to answer or even give a satisfying answer. 

I don't know how things are run now but I made it clear that it's the responsibility of graders to be willing to help out in the graphics discord and there were any issues they could refer the person to me.

I required all of the graders to put this at the bottom of the grades: If you have questions about your grade you can message myself or @[caltroit_red_flames], or submit your submission for arbitration here: http://nsfl.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=21685

Looks like Lim has continued that based on the one grade that I checked.

yes but at the same time, I don't think its utilized by the community which opens its own questions I suppose.

[Hallmonitor_20]

Why don't we just do it like PBE does and let the graphics team pay a small set amount per graphic and let the users actually pay for graphics. 

I love it in PBE and with the need to spend money in ISFL I think it would work great here as well. 

Like Jango said, the user's happiness receiving the sig should be whats most important not how well it fits the grading guidelines.

[caltroit_red_flames]

Why don't we just do it like PBE does and let the graphics team pay a small set amount per graphic and let the users actually pay for graphics. 

I love it in PBE and with the need to spend money in ISFL I think it would work great here as well. 

Like Jango said, the user's happiness receiving the sig should be whats most important not how well it fits the grading guidelines.

Anyone who wants to make money from graphics should be vehemently against this.